Arming the Ukrainians

[jeremyp]

   


No, TV, it doesn't.
These islands have three centuries of testemonial.

Don't worry, if you vote in an anti-union government (which you have already), you won't find the English tanks rolling across the lowlands to install a puppet regime.

Would you be for or against resistance if they did?

[Nearly Sane]

Don't worry, if you vote in an anti-union government (which you have already), you won't find the English tanks rolling across the lowlands to install a puppet regime.

Would you be for or against resistance if they did?

I agree that there is nothing in common between Scotland and Ukraine here but it's not that long ago that there were tanks deployed by the UK about a territorial dispute in what some would argue is 'occupied territory'.

[ad_orientem]

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1499439820363468802?t=ZW38l3JrTnDhpf_uEfSuEg&s=19

[Nearly Sane]

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1499439820363468802?t=ZW38l3JrTnDhpf_uEfSuEg&s=19

Ooft!

[SteveH]

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1499439820363468802?t=ZW38l3JrTnDhpf_uEfSuEg&s=19

"Genocde on an industrial scale" is a huge and unhelpful exaggeration.

[Nearly Sane]

"Genocde on an industrial scale" is a huge and unhelpful exaggeration.

Easy to say when you are not being killed.

[SteveH]

Easy to say when you are not being killed.

Typical self-righteous sarcasm. Give it a rest.

[SteveH]

The latest 'New European' says that Zelenskyy's 'Servant of the People' party wants to join NATO and the UK. Shome mishtake, surely...

[Nearly Sane]

Typical self-righteous sarcasm. Give it a rest.

I doubt you will be capable of seeing the irony of your post, but it is quite spectacular.

[jeremyp]

https://twitter.com/Kasparov63/status/1499439820363468802?t=ZW38l3JrTnDhpf_uEfSuEg&s=19

I think he's got several points wrong in that.

[jeremyp]

I agree that there is nothing in common between Scotland and Ukraine here but it's not that long ago that there were tanks deployed by the UK about a territorial dispute in what some would argue is 'occupied territory'.

Are you talking about Afghanistan or Iraq? Neither of them were territorial disputes - at least not before we invaded.

I assume you're not talking about Northern Ireland because we didn't deploy tanks there.

[Aruntraveller]

Are you talking about Afghanistan or Iraq? Neither of them were territorial disputes - at least not before we invaded.

I assume you're not talking about Northern Ireland because we didn't deploy tanks there.

Falklands, maybe?

[Nearly Sane]

Are you talking about Afghanistan or Iraq? Neither of them were territorial disputes - at least not before we invaded.

I assume you're not talking about Northern Ireland because we didn't deploy tanks there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Motorman

[jeremyp]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Motorman

Fifty years ago is not really "not that long ago" nor were the tanks deployed in an offensive role

Several Centurion AVRE demolition vehicles, derived from the Centurion tank and fitted with bulldozer blades, were used. They were the only heavy armoured vehicles to be deployed operationally by the British Army in Northern Ireland during the Troubles. The tanks had been transported to Northern Ireland on board the amphibious landing ship HMS Fearless, and were operated with their turrets traversed to the rear and main guns covered by tarpaulins

They were used to break down barricades.

The troops that were in Northern Ireland were deployed in a policing role not as an invading force or an army of occupation. You can argue that it was a mistake to do that, but it was not at all like invading independent Scotland or what the Russians are doing to Ukraine.

[SteveH]

I doubt you will be capable of seeing the irony of your post, but it is quite spectacular.

Examples of self-righteous sarcasm from me, please.

[jeremyp]

We have granted 50 Ukrainian visas so far (out of about 5,000 applications).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60640460

I'm a little bit angry: Priti Patel is doing everything possible to speed up the process, so she says. Why can't she just say to borders officials "if they have a Ukrainian passport, let them in and we'll sort out the details later"?

I'm ashamed at our (the UK's) response to this crisis.

[Aruntraveller]

We have granted 50 Ukrainian visas so far (out of about 5,000 applications).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60640460

I'm a little bit angry: Priti Patel is doing everything possible to speed up the process, so she says. Why can't she just say to borders officials "if they have a Ukrainian passport, let them in and we'll sort out the details later"?

I'm ashamed at our (the UK's) response to this crisis.

I notice you are angry and ashamed, rightly so, and although you don't say it, I suspect you are not at all surprised.

When you say the UK's response, I take it you are referring to HMG rather than the people, who I think are doing rather better than the government.

[Udayana]

We have granted 50 Ukrainian visas so far (out of about 5,000 applications).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60640460

I'm a little bit angry: Priti Patel is doing everything possible to speed up the process, so she says. Why can't she just say to borders officials "if they have a Ukrainian passport, let them in and we'll sort out the details later"?

I'm ashamed at our (the UK's) response to this crisis.

This crisis? Yes, and all the other crises over the last two decades.

But, of-course, the border policies are working exactly as intended.

If Ukrainian refugees and asylum seekers were able to present themselves and make their cases easily at the channel ports, it would set a precedent that could be used by black, brown, etc or Muslim people in the future.
 

[Aruntraveller]

If Ukrainian refugees and asylum seekers were able to present themselves and make their cases easily at the channel ports, it would set a precedent that could be used by black, brown, etc or Muslim people in the future.

Yes. The racism is naked:

Daniel Hannan, a former Conservative member of the European Parliament, wrote in London’s Telegraph newspaper of the Ukrainian people being attacked: “They seem so like us. That is what makes it so shocking. War is no longer something visited upon impoverished and remote populations. It can happen to anyone.”

Taken from this report here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/02/27/media-ukraine-offensive-comparisons/

[jeremyp]

This crisis? Yes, and all the other crises over the last two decades.

But, of-course, the border policies are working exactly as intended.

If Ukrainian refugees and asylum seekers were able to present themselves and make their cases easily at the channel ports, it would set a precedent that could be used by black, brown, etc or Muslim people in the future.

I think, if you look at my posts in the past on this forum you'll find that I've always been pretty liberal with respect to immigration. In my opinion, we should have an open door policy with some caveats. If somebody is prepared to try to cross the English Channel in a dinghy or lock themselves in a container for days or weeks, wherever they are coming from must be pretty bad and we have a moral duty not to send them back.

[Udayana]

Yes. The racism is naked:

Taken from this report here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2022/02/27/media-ukraine-offensive-comparisons/

Couldn't get past the subscription offer.

I will say, the racism is not confined to the UK, some of the European countries can be worse at times - especially East European. But, they are helping the Ukrainians now, so that is good despite anything that may have happened in the past or their future policies.

[Udayana]

I think, if you look at my posts in the past on this forum you'll find that I've always been pretty liberal with respect to immigration. In my opinion, we should have an open door policy with some caveats. If somebody is prepared to try to cross the English Channel in a dinghy or lock themselves in a container for days or weeks, wherever they are coming from must be pretty bad and we have a moral duty not to send them back.

Indeed, sorry if I seemed to be challenging your point, was just trying to understand the government rationale for this, aside from the usual incompetence.

[Aruntraveller]

Couldn't get past the subscription offer.

Odd. I don't subscribe and read it fine. One of the many foibles of t'internet.

[Spud]

A friend who is a retired brigadier said we should do anything we can to help the Ukrainians, including a no fly zone.

Another friend thought this meant geting rid of any flies somewhere

[ad_orientem]

I'm beginning to be more and more of the opinion that we have to intervene. Ukraine is putting up a good defence but how long can they hold out? On the plus side, I read a report in the Finnish media that Russia's military hardware was meant to be updated but most of the money was stolen and spent on luxury yachts etc.