Arming the Ukrainians

[Nearly Sane]

I just love the way people who have never had to live next to that monster moralise about how we should feel about them.

  And there would be Russians who would write the same. That you and they indulge in this dehumanising shows how you are both being controlled.

[jeremyp]

  And there would be Russians who would write the same. That you and they indulge in this dehumanising shows how you are both being controlled.

In Ukraine, which is the country currently being invaded, they seem to be treating captured Russian troops fairly humanely. Of course, there are practical reasons why they are doing this, but, nevertheless, others could use their example.

[Nearly Sane]

In Ukraine, which is the country currently being invaded, they seem to be treating captured Russian troops fairly humanely. Of course, there are practical reasons why they are doing this, but, nevertheless, others could use their example.

What is your point?

[jeremyp]

What is your point?

The Ukrainians themselves are not dehumanising their enemies - at least not after they have been captured. Ad O has no excuse.

[ad_orientem]

The Ukrainians themselves are not dehumanising their enemies - at least not after they have been captured. Ad O has no excuse.

Ukrainians started calling Russian soldiers that first because, well, they behave like orcs. You see the places they abandon. They even look like those filthy, stinky orc holes straight out of Tolkien's books. As I said, it's very easy to start moralising about how those who live next to Russia feel about Russians when you've never had to live next to it with their constant belligerence. They've always been like that. Russia is founded upon it.

[Dicky Underpants]

Changing tack - is the ranting pro-Putin Gorgon, Olga Skabayeva of any significance in escalating the conflict? Or is she regarded by educated Russians as a sort of unhinged Melanie Griffiths type, with a lower IQ than Trump? There seem quite a number of mad ranters who are coming out the Putin dung heap recently.

Talking of fast moving shit, | noticed that Sergei Lavrov was in and out of the UN Security Council summit like a dose of salts.

[ad_orientem]

Changing tack - is the ranting pro-Putin Gorgon, Olga Skabayeva of any significance in escalating the conflict? Or is she regarded by educated Russians as a sort of unhinged Melanie Griffiths type, with a lower IQ than Trump? There seem quite a number of mad ranters who are coming out the Putin dung heap recently.

Talking of fast moving shit, | noticed that Sergei Lavrov was in and out of the UN Security Council summit like a dose of salts.

Vatniks are like that. Typically dumb. That Solovyev too, or whatever his name is. As for Lavrov, vatnik tears. Inject me!

[Spud]

What kind of alternate universe are you living in?

Just trying to establish if Russia is being expansionist.

Are they coercing people to vote to join Russia? Bear in mind that Ukraine is coercing them not to - threatening jail for obtaining Russian citizenship.

[ad_orientem]

Just trying to establish if Russia is being expansionist.

Are they coercing people to vote to join Russia? Bear in mind that Ukraine is coercing them not to - threatening jail for obtaining Russian citizenship.

Yes, they are bring coerced to join Russia! Russia has always been expansionist. Learn some history!

[Dicky Underpants]

Just trying to establish if Russia is being expansionist.

Are they coercing people to vote to join Russia? Bear in mind that Ukraine is coercing them not to - threatening jail for obtaining Russian citizenship.

Invade a country, bomb, murder and pillage - and then invite the invaded regions to vote to join the invading country? Don't you think that's a bit arse about face old bean?
Not that invading a country if the vote doesn't go your way would be a much better option.

[jeremyp]

Just trying to establish if Russia is being expansionist.

Are you serious? We had the answer to that years ago.

Are they coercing people to vote to join Russia?

Yes. Of course they are.

Bear in mind that Ukraine is coercing them not to - threatening jail for obtaining Russian citizenship.

Citation needed.

Although, if the citation comes from after 2014, it wouldn't surprise me. Russia is Ukraine's enemy. Any British people seeking German citizenship during the Second World War would probably have been in hot water too.

[Spud]

Invade a country, bomb, murder and pillage - and then invite the invaded regions to vote to join the invading country? Don't you think that's a bit arse about face old bean?
Not that invading a country if the vote doesn't go your way would be a much better option.

Well....
Have you heard of Eva Bartlett? She is in Donetsk and says civilians have been shelled since 2014 by Ukrainian forces. Why, because they didn't want to follow the rest of Ukraine down the path of closer ties with the EU, wanting independence instead.

[Dicky Underpants]

Well....
Have you heard of Eva Bartlett? She is in Donetsk and says civilians have been shelled since 2014 by Ukrainian forces. Why, because they didn't want to follow the rest of Ukraine down the path of closer ties with the EU, wanting independence instead.

The Russian-funded activist, with a lifetime of promoting every crank conspiracy theory going?
She seems to have effectively suggested that the Ukrainians completely destroyed their own city of Mariupol, just to blame it on the Russians (that would be a first in world history, apart from the capital of the ancient Hittites - for different reasons) Do me a favour, guv'.
She deserves to be in prison with other perpetrators of disinformation like Andrew Wakefield.

[ad_orientem]

Well....
Have you heard of Eva Bartlett? She is in Donetsk and says civilians have been shelled since 2014 by Ukrainian forces. Why, because they didn't want to follow the rest of Ukraine down the path of closer ties with the EU, wanting independence instead.

Yes, I've heard of her. She blocked me on Twitter. At some point a massive Russian dick was inserted in her mouth and she developed a taste for Russian cum. As a result it's rotted her brain. Example: she constantly accuses Ukraine of using butterfly mines. USSR made, Ukraine signed the treaty banning their use. Ukraine has already destroyed half its stockpile. The other half yet to be destroyed remains under controlled conditions under the treaty. Surprise, surprise Russia never signed the treaty! It has used them and continues to use them. False flag. Eva Barrlett is a born liar, "reports" in fatigues and Nazi Z signs, just like Patrick Lancaster and Graham Philips. All legit targets, if you ask me.

[ad_orientem]

Well....
Have you heard of Eva Bartlett? She is in Donetsk and says civilians have been shelled since 2014 by Ukrainian forces. Why, because they didn't want to follow the rest of Ukraine down the path of closer ties with the EU, wanting independence instead.

If you believe the Russians, born liars.

[ad_orientem]

Maybe we should try a more gentle approach. Hugs!

[jeremyp]

My respect for Roger Waters has just gone up in a puff of smoke.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63026101

[Spud]

If you believe the Russians, born liars.

She's Canadian I think? Anyway, she seemed genuine to me but I don't know her history. She took photos last week of 13 people killed in shelling on 19th September, which she said was by Ukraine and has been ongoing since 2014.

[ad_orientem]

My respect for Roger Waters has just gone up in a puff of smoke.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-63026101

He's always been a dick.

[Dicky Underpants]

She's Canadian I think? Anyway, she seemed genuine to me but I don't know her history. She took photos last week of 13 people killed in shelling on 19th September, which she said was by Ukraine and has been ongoing since 2014.

Yes, there has been violent  military activity there since 2014.  The situation changed to full scale invasion by RUSSIA earlier this year.

[Spud]

Yes, there has been violent  military activity there since 2014.  The situation changed to full scale invasion by RUSSIA earlier this year.

Should we be looking at the initial cause of the conflict, though? I understand that Russia perhaps wrongly stepped in in 2014 in support of the separatists, but is there not a case for a genuine referendum on independence? It doesn't seem that different from Scotland saying they want closer ties with the EU and to break away from UK. Then the people could decide, and Russia and Ukraine would have to agree to respect the result.

[ad_orientem]

There is no choice.

[Nearly Sane]

Should we be looking at the initial cause of the conflict, though? I understand that Russia perhaps wrongly stepped in in 2014 in support of the separatists, but is there not a case for a genuine referendum on independence? It doesn't seem that different from Scotland saying they want closer ties with the EU and to break away from UK. Then the people could decide, and Russia and Ukraine would have to agree to respect the result.

England has not bombed, has not killed, has not raped. It is not even fucking close to Scotland and an indy ref. It's so fucking far away that it's grossly offensive to suggest. You are an apologist for murder.

[Udayana]

Should we be looking at the initial cause of the conflict, though?
...

Of-course - but what on earth do you think it is? And how long do you think this has been going on?
 

[Spud]

England has not bombed, has not killed, has not raped. It is not even fucking close to Scotland and an indy ref. It's so fucking far away that it's grossly offensive to suggest. You are an apologist for murder.

Ok so it's completely different from the UK.
Still, why can't the pro-Russian regions in Ukraine have a referendum as long as it is done fairly?