Arming the Ukrainians

[Spud]

Was the last 24 hours a fake mutiny by Prigodgen/Wagner?

[Spud]

And what right do they have to 'de-militarize' a foreign nation?

They were asked for help by two allies, LPR and DPR.
"Surrendered Ukrainian troops confirm Kiev’s plans of massive offensive in Donbass"
28 FEB 2022
https://tass.com/defense/1413035

[ekim]

Was the last 24 hours a fake mutiny by Prigodgen/Wagner?

It could be a disguised prelude to opening up a new attack front from Belarus if Prigodgen is  accompanied by a substantial number of Wagner forces.  If he is assassinated then probably not.

[jeremyp]

They were asked for help by two allies, LPR and DPR.
"Surrendered Ukrainian troops confirm Kiev’s plans of massive offensive in Donbass"
28 FEB 2022
https://tass.com/defense/1413035

The LPR and the DPR didn't exist before Russia destabilised the region.

[ad_orientem]

They were asked for help by two allies, LPR and DPR.
"Surrendered Ukrainian troops confirm Kiev’s plans of massive offensive in Donbass"
28 FEB 2022
https://tass.com/defense/1413035

Lol! Tacc. Liars lie.

[Spud]

A Belorussian youtuber shared video footage of a Ukrainian commander telling his company to attack. When they refused, he threw a grenade at them.
https://youtu.be/wGIt9J_F4f0
See at 16:20 minutes.
I've seen other footage of a Bradley being used against Ukrainian troops who were helping a wounded comrade get to a rear position.
I heard the Ukrainians have squads whose job it is to kill retreating Ukrainian soldiers.
I'm aware this may be the case with the Wagner forces as well, but just informing you about the regime you are supporting.

[jeremyp]

A Belorussian youtuber shared video footage of a Ukrainian commander telling his company to attack. When they refused, he threw a grenade at them.
https://youtu.be/wGIt9J_F4f0
See at 16:20 minutes.
I've seen other footage of a Bradley being used against Ukrainian troops who were helping a wounded comrade get to a rear position.
I heard the Ukrainians have squads whose job it is to kill retreating Ukrainian soldiers.
I'm aware this may be the case with the Wagner forces as well, but just informing you about the regime you are supporting.

I don’t see anything in that video to suggest that the soldiers were Ukrainian. Also, there’s no sound. Sorry, it could be Ukrainians but it could be Russian propaganda. It’s not like they’ve never faked videos before.

[Spud]

The same video with sound:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/CF6LCypIknoi/
I can't find any verification at the moment.

[ProfessorDavey]

I don’t see anything in that video to suggest that the soldiers were Ukrainian. Also, there’s no sound. Sorry, it could be Ukrainians but it could be Russian propaganda. It’s not like they’ve never faked videos before.

Absolutely - there is nothing that I can discern from the video to show that the soldiers are Ukrainian, Russian or from any other country. With the sound I've no idea the language nor what is said and something like this would be dead easy to fake.

There is also the issue of the source of the video - given that it appears to have been filmed by the people lobbing the grenade rather than those on the receiving end, why would those people release the video to the media.

So it could be fake, it could be genuine - they might be Ukranian, they might be Russian - frankly the video tells us absolutely nothing of value.

[Aruntraveller]

I can't find any verification at the moment.

 

[ad_orientem]

Lavrov said at the UN the other day that ruSSia has no plans to blow up the ZNPP, and now today Zakharova accused Ukraine of planning to blow it up. There are also reports that ruSSia is gradually reducing servicemen and troops at the plant. Therefore we can be quite sure ruSSia is planning to blow it up.

The politicians and media aren't really talking about it. I don't know why. And if it does happen, you can be guaranteed western media will regurgitate several ruSSian narratives, as they did with Nova Kakhovka, including "we can't be sure until we've seen all the facts".

[jeremyp]

Lavrov said at the UN the other day that ruSSia has no plans to blow up the ZNPP

Oh dear. That's really bad news considering he lies all the time.

[Spud]

The US hasn't detected any sign that Russia is preparing to blow it up.

[jeremyp]

The US hasn't detected any sign that Russia is preparing to blow it up.

Everybody has been told to get away from the area by July 5th.

If they do blow it up, will you then admit that Russia is the evil guy in all this?

[Spud]

Everybody has been told to get away from the area by July 5th.

If they do blow it up, will you then admit that Russia is the evil guy in all this?

If it is proven to be Russia, I'll admit it was them. The UK has already sent depleted uranium shells, which would cause radioactive contamination if used.
Simplicius the thinker thinks it is a false flag by Ukraine, given the timing just before the NATO summit - a way to provoke the West to get directly involved, or just to persuade us to give them more weapons.

[Outrider]

If it is proven to be Russia, I'll admit it was them. The UK has already sent depleted uranium shells, which would cause radioactive contamination if used.

Depleted uranium shell residue is easily distinguishable from the fissile material in a nuclear reactor.

Simplicius the thinker thinks it is a false flag by Ukraine, given the timing just before the NATO summit - a way to provoke the West to get directly involved, or just to persuade us to give them more weapons.

A false flag by Ukraine who've managed to arrange for the Russians to reduce their troops there... where do you get the impression that the West needs any encouragement to get paid for weapons they were going to have to destroy shortly anyway?

O.

[jeremyp]

If it is proven to be Russia, I'll admit it was them. The UK has already sent depleted uranium shells, which would cause radioactive contamination if used.
Simplicius the thinker thinks it is a false flag by Ukraine, given the timing just before the NATO summit - a way to provoke the West to get directly involved, or just to persuade us to give them more weapons.

A false flag operation that renders a large proportion of your own country uninhabitable seems rather extreme. If ZNPP is blown up, it will be the Russians doing it.

[Spud]

The LPR and the DPR didn't exist before Russia destabilised the region.

The US recognises a region called Cossackia as distinct from both Communist Russia and Ukraine:
https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-congress-and-president-obama-officially-recognize-donbass-public-law-86-90-1959/5467942

[Dicky Underpants]

A false flag operation that renders a large proportion of your own country uninhabitable seems rather extreme. If ZNPP is blown up, it will be the Russians doing it.

And on such a scale, never known before in the whole history of humanity

[Spud]

Ukraine and Russia to continue slaughtering each other, then.

The politicians and media aren't really talking about it.

I'm quite surprised that they're also not mentioning Russia's updates on the numbers of Ukrainian casualties, totaling around 500-700 per day. I haven't seen any figures for daily Russian casualties but I wonder whether if the mainstream media and politicians were talking about this, would public opinion about supporting the war be different?

[ad_orientem]

Ukraine and Russia to continue slaughtering each other, then. I'm quite surprised that they're also not mentioning Russia's updates on the numbers of Ukrainian casualties, totaling around 500-700 per day. I haven't seen any figures for daily Russian casualties but I wonder whether if the mainstream media and politicians were talking about this, would public opinion about supporting the war be different?

RuSSian's talk shit and nothing what they say is to be believed. RuSSian claims are fantastical. RuSSia doesn't give a shit about the lives of its soldiers. On the otherhand, Ukraine cares about its own soldiers. That is why the counter offensive seems slow to many. However, this isn't a video game. Ukrainian ministry of defence publishes daily ruSSian casualties.

[Spud]

RuSSian's talk shit and nothing what they say is to be believed. RuSSian claims are fantastical. RuSSia doesn't give a shit about the lives of its soldiers. On the otherhand, Ukraine cares about its own soldiers. That is why the counter offensive seems slow to many. However, this isn't a video game. Ukrainian ministry of defence publishes daily ruSSian casualties.

So 237,000 Russians dead. What are [edit: Ukraine's] stats for their own casualties?
Here is an article from the NYT stating that a cemetery in Lviv has buried 500 soldiers since Feb last year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/19/world/europe/ukraine-soldier-funerals-lviv.html

I think you need to do a reality check, ad.

[Sebastian Toe]

So 237,000 Russians dead. What are their stats for their own casualties?
Here is an article from the NYT stating that a cemetery in Lviv has buried 500 soldiers since Feb last year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/19/world/europe/ukraine-soldier-funerals-lviv.html

I think you need to do a reality check, ad.

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-military-deaths-facd75c2311ed7be660342698cf6a409

[Spud]

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-military-deaths-facd75c2311ed7be660342698cf6a409

Thanks Seb, I actually meant what are Ukraine's stats for their own casualties.

[Spud]

My point is this. The government calls Ukrainians 'our Ukrainian friends'. I agree with this, but if the reality is that they are dying in their hundreds of thousands, perhaps eventually millions, and we are not willing to fight with them, then is it really them we care about or is it the land they are fighting for? A much better way to help them would be like how we helped Hong Kongers, allowing them to settle in Europe, alive.