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Author Topic: Arming the Ukrainians  (Read 109416 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1450 on: December 19, 2023, 07:59:01 PM »
Extra 500,000 soldiers for Ukraine



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67767246
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ekim

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1451 on: December 22, 2023, 03:26:09 PM »
Leonid Gozman writes : http://tinyurl.com/4n7d9ej4
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ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1452 on: December 22, 2023, 08:31:31 PM »
Quote from: ekim on December 22, 2023, 03:26:09 PM
Leonid Gozman writes : http://tinyurl.com/4n7d9ej4

This is precisely why the only just and lasting peace is a de-militarised and de-colonised Russia. People need to understand this. Whilst the main objective must be Ukraine's victory, if we want real peace russkiy mir must also die. The longer we leave this the more likely it is that not only Ukrainians will have to pay for it with blood.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2023, 08:34:17 PM by ad_orientem »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1453 on: December 23, 2023, 04:22:30 PM »

What a marvellous place Putin's Russia is!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67810463
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1454 on: December 23, 2023, 10:21:07 PM »
Quote from: Outrider on December 18, 2023, 08:25:13 AM
Do you think Putin will stop?
Russia's actions will be influenced by the US and NATO's actions; we know this to be true because, as I previously noted in this thread, after it was announced in 2008 that Ukraine would one day join NATO, the then US ambassador to Moscow William Burns warned that this could provoke Russia to intervene militarily. His warning went unheeded and what he predicted, happened
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2022/02/27/us-nato-expansion-ukraine-russia-intervene/
« Last Edit: December 24, 2023, 05:01:21 AM by Spud »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1455 on: December 26, 2023, 01:53:52 AM »
Christmas spirit part 6,047, 332

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67820916
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1456 on: December 27, 2023, 06:54:31 PM »
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ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1457 on: December 27, 2023, 08:45:37 PM »
Despite the use of the word "damaged" in the headline, the ship was actually turned into a submarine or sunk, in layman's terms. Russia's Black Sea fleet is slowly but surely dwindling. Moskal propagandists are coping hard. Imagine what Ukraine could do if we actually gave them everything they needed!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67821515
« Last Edit: December 28, 2023, 09:23:00 AM by ad_orientem »
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jeremyp

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1458 on: December 28, 2023, 09:27:07 AM »
Quote from: ad_orientem on December 27, 2023, 08:45:37 PM
Despite the use of the word "damaged" in the headline, the ship was actually turned into a submarine or sunk, in layman's terms. Russia's Black Sea fleet is slowly but surely dwindling. Moskal propagandists are coping hard. Imagine what Ukraine could do if we actually gave them everything they needed!

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67821515

The trouble is that the Black Sea Fleet is largely irrelevant in this war.

I suppose you could argue that, once it's all gone, the Russians won't need Sevastopol any more and can thus leave Crimea.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1459 on: December 28, 2023, 10:29:06 AM »
Last aid released from the US for just now to Ukraine.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67830918
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1460 on: December 28, 2023, 11:54:33 AM »
Quote from: jeremyp on December 28, 2023, 09:27:07 AM
The trouble is that the Black Sea Fleet is largely irrelevant in this war.

I suppose you could argue that, once it's all gone, the Russians won't need Sevastopol any more and can thus leave Crimea.
They would want a legally binding guarantee that Ukraine will not join NATO before they would hand Crimea back.
Also they would demand that the people of Crimea decide whether they want to be part of Ukraine again.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2023, 11:58:13 AM by Spud »
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SqueakyVoice

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1461 on: December 28, 2023, 01:20:14 PM »
Quote from: Spud on December 28, 2023, 11:54:33 AM
They would want a legally binding guarantee that Ukraine will not join NATO before they would hand Crimea back.
Also they would demand that the people of Crimea decide whether they want to be part of Ukraine again.
Putin has illegally annexed Crimea, illegally invaded Ukraine and illegally murdered dissidents with radioactive poison (again illegal), suspicious windows and  and suspiciously exploding airplanes.
Just how legally binding could any agreement with Putin and Ukraine be? You're willful naivety is beyond contempt.
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1462 on: December 28, 2023, 02:12:43 PM »
Quote from: SqueakyVoice on December 28, 2023, 01:20:14 PM
Putin has illegally annexed Crimea, illegally invaded Ukraine and illegally murdered dissidents with radioactive poison (again illegal), suspicious windows and  and suspiciously exploding airplanes.
Just how legally binding could any agreement with Putin and Ukraine be? You're willful naivety is beyond contempt.
See my last post.  NATO provoked Russia. It would therefore have to work out how to regain Russia's trust.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1463 on: December 28, 2023, 02:29:34 PM »
Quote from: Spud on December 28, 2023, 02:12:43 PM
See my last post.  NATO provoked Russia. It would therefore have to work out how to regain Russia's trust.
Because appeasing a murderous dictator is so on brand for you.
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SqueakyVoice

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1464 on: December 28, 2023, 04:52:36 PM »
Quote from: Spud on December 28, 2023, 02:12:43 PM
See my last post.  NATO provoked Russia. It would therefore have to work out how to regain Russia's trust.
Russia would 'gain trust' if Putin was arrested and put on trial in the International Court of Justice.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1465 on: December 28, 2023, 04:54:54 PM »
Quote from: Spud on December 28, 2023, 11:54:33 AM
They would want a legally binding guarantee that Ukraine will not join NATO before they would hand Crimea back.
Also they would demand that the people of Crimea decide whether they want to be part of Ukraine again.

Oh, you mean ask Russian occupiers what they want? Tell me, do you know anything about Crimean Tartars?
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ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1466 on: December 28, 2023, 04:57:27 PM »
Quote from: Spud on December 28, 2023, 02:12:43 PM
See my last post.  NATO provoked Russia. It would therefore have to work out how to regain Russia's trust.

NATO never provoked Russia. Russia is paranoid. But due to its actions it got what it wants. Russia must fucking burn!
« Last Edit: December 28, 2023, 05:51:04 PM by ad_orientem »
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ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1467 on: December 28, 2023, 05:14:42 PM »
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1468 on: December 28, 2023, 05:51:31 PM »
Quote from: Nearly Sane on December 28, 2023, 02:29:34 PM
Because appeasing a murderous dictator is so on brand for you.
It's not appeasement.
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1469 on: December 28, 2023, 05:53:22 PM »
Quote from: SqueakyVoice on December 28, 2023, 04:52:36 PM
Russia would 'gain trust' if Putin was arrested and put on trial in the International Court of Justice.
NATO would have gained Russia's trust if it had backed off.
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jeremyp

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1470 on: December 28, 2023, 05:54:17 PM »
Quote from: Spud on December 28, 2023, 02:12:43 PM
See my last post.  NATO provoked Russia. It would therefore have to work out how to regain Russia's trust.

You cannot be for real.

Russia is the country that needs to regain trust. Russia invaded Ukraine for no reason other to make Putin look good.
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jeremyp

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1471 on: December 28, 2023, 05:55:03 PM »
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jeremyp

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1472 on: December 28, 2023, 05:55:42 PM »
Quote from: Spud on December 28, 2023, 05:53:22 PM
NATO would have gained Russia's trust if it had backed off.

Russia would have gained trust if it hadn't gone on a murder spree in another country.
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1473 on: December 28, 2023, 05:58:06 PM »
Quote from: ad_orientem on December 28, 2023, 04:54:54 PM
Oh, you mean ask Russian occupiers what they want? Tell me, do you know anything about Crimean Tartars?
Yes, a little; they refused to vote in the referendum iirc. I think the main issue was about preventing the US from having access to Crimea, though, hence its immediate seizure in March 2014.
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #1474 on: December 28, 2023, 06:01:23 PM »
Quote from: jeremyp on December 28, 2023, 05:55:03 PM
Yes it is.
Not if Crimea was given back to Ukraine in return for NATO weapons being removed from Ukraine and there was a no NATO membership guarantee.
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