Arming the Ukrainians

[Spud]

Or, conversely, following escalations that turned into violent confrontations, heavy-handed police have tried to retrospectively claim violent intent, and Russian media has been over-emphasising the influence of Right Sector ever since.

It may never become absolutely clear who instigated the violence, although by and large the neutral press seems to be leaning towards the notion that it was police activity that escalated the situation, and the Ukrainian Parliamentary investigation put the responsibility for that squarely on Yanukovych, that's why he was prosecuted.

Even if that were a cover-up for an insurrection, which I don't accept... how does that justify an invasion from Russia?

O.

Evgeny Karas boasting about it on Feb 5 2022 (6 minute video)

[Outrider]

Evgeny Karas boasting about it on Feb 5 2022 (6 minute video)

A far right nationalist claiming some sort of effectiveness in politics! Imagine my shock. He can claim, he can boast, and he may well have been there and even involved, but the general consensus of impartial media is that police over-reaction was what escalated the protests into violence.

Which is not to say that C14 didn't go with the intention of starting violence, but that's the sort of threat that innumerable other police forces deal with in relation to large protests, and it doesn't then escalate in that way.

O.

[Spud]

A far right nationalist claiming some sort of effectiveness in politics! Imagine my shock. He can claim, he can boast, and he may well have been there and even involved, but the general consensus of impartial media is that police over-reaction was what escalated the protests into violence.

Which is not to say that C14 didn't go with the intention of starting violence, but that's the sort of threat that innumerable other police forces deal with in relation to large protests, and it doesn't then escalate in that way.

O.

It seems the whole idea is to infiltrate the crowd, provoke the police into over-reacting, and then claim 'the police fired the first shots'. Don't forget the protestors had already attacked the police on 24-25 Nov. Also the 'impartial media' included three TV channels that had seemingly been formed specially to cover those events. Also the provocateurs used bulldozers in the weeks after Nov 30. These were well trained militia.

[Spud]

My guess: Spud is genuinely pro-Russian because, being alt-right, he sees the FSB agent Kirill backs Putin, Russia has anti gay laws, people beat up gays on the street, and domestic abuse has been decriminalised. tRaDiTiOnAl VaLuOos!

It's more about gender identity, from the interviews I've seen from people in Donbas. People want their children to grow into the gender they were born with. It might also be worth saying that God does not allow the kinds of sin in this category to go unpunished. I don't think one can interpret Leviticus 18:25 any other way.

[Nearly Sane]

It's more about gender identity, from the interviews I've seen from people in Donbas. People want their children to grow into the gender they were born with. It might also be worth saying that God does not allow the kinds of sin in this category to go unpunished. I don't think one can interpret Leviticus 18:25 any other way.

Oh look your homophobia is showing.

And you seem to be approving of gay people being beaten up.

[ad_orientem]

It's more about gender identity, from the interviews I've seen from people in Donbas. People want their children to grow into the gender they were born with. It might also be worth saying that God does not allow the kinds of sin in this category to go unpunished. I don't think one can interpret Leviticus 18:25 any other way.

Worth a read: https://twitter.com/DonbasDIY/status/1631769715050946562?s=19

The Russian army is big on gay rights: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina

[Outrider]

It seems the whole idea is to infiltrate the crowd, provoke the police into over-reacting, and then claim 'the police fired the first shots'.

Which is what police forces around the world face in these situations.

Don't forget the protestors had already attacked the police on 24-25 Nov.

There had been clashes, again generally considered to be the result of heavy-handed policing.

Also the 'impartial media' included three TV channels that had seemingly been formed specially to cover those events.

By definition the impartial media doesn't include these groups; that they're both reporting the same thing should probably tell you something.

Also the provocateurs used bulldozers in the weeks after Nov 30. These were well trained militia.

Who weren't in control of the police response, weren't in control of the decision to turn against Parliament's wishes, and most importantly weren't in control of the Russian forces preparing to occupy Crimea.

So, again, how does any of this justify either of the Russian invasions?

O.

[/quote]

[Aruntraveller]

It's more about gender identity, from the interviews I've seen from people in Donbas. People want their children to grow into the gender they were born with. It might also be worth saying that God does not allow the kinds of sin in this category to go unpunished. I don't think one can interpret Leviticus 18:25 any other way.

Your self-loathing is showing again.

[Outrider]

It's more about gender identity, from the interviews I've seen from people in Donbas.

The people currently in Donbas who are allowed to speak by their Russian occupiers, you mean? Or, perhaps, not even the people from Donbas, but those the Russians are permitting to claim that they are for propoganda purposes.

People want their children to grow into the gender they were born with.

People want lots of things for their children, but their children have rights of their own - like the right to medical care appropriate to the circumstances and conditions, for instance.

It might also be worth saying that God does not allow the kinds of sin in this category to go unpunished.

It's really not worth trying to justify any of these invasions at all, but trying to pitch it as some sort of divinely mandated retribution is just beyond reprehensible.

I don't think one can interpret Leviticus 18:25 any other way.

I don't need to interpret Leviticus, I'm talking about the real world invasion of real world places by a real world authoritarian regime. If I want a bedtime story, I've got better options than that nonsense.

O.

[Nearly Sane]

Donald Tusk argues that war is a real threat and Europe isn't ready

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68692195

[ad_orientem]

Donald Tusk argues that war is a real threat and Europe isn't ready

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68692195

He's right. Europe needs to prepare for war, especially since USA is no longer a reliable partner.

[Nearly Sane]

The return of military service?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68728096

[Spud]

The return of military service?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68728096

A bit of advice on that, from Billy Connelly, quite apt at this point in time:
https://youtu.be/8APUM-b4-ns?si=4rjXajNwENn6c7F_

[Nearly Sane]

A bit of advice on that, from Billy Connelly, quite apt at this point in time:
https://youtu.be/8APUM-b4-ns?si=4rjXajNwENn6c7F_

Apt at any time, I would agree, though it's Brian Cox, not sciencey one, but then I suppose all hairy Scotchmen look alike, even if one of them was a drunk antisemitic paedophile.


ETA - was reminded about this by jeremyp on the Hate Crime Act thread.

https://youtu.be/tHA1ufmLZQY?si=RnbFSVA6YXRjrhJG

[ad_orientem]

Russia has a GPS jamming device in Kaliningrad, disrupting the navigation of thousands of military and civil flights in the Baltic, and putting lives at risk. They've been doing it for about four months now. I don't know why this isn't making news or why not much is being done about it.

https://twitter.com/auonsson/status/1774173721185382667?s=19

https://twitter.com/United24media/status/1776212186148323720?s=19

[Nearly Sane]

Russia 'friendly' President elected in Slovakia


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68754112

[Nearly Sane]

UK backs individual Russian and Belarusian athletes competing at the Olympics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/olympics/68767734

[Nearly Sane]

Downbeat but I think realistic assessment of the likelihood of a Ukrainian defeat this year. With the US distracted by an election and the ME, as indeed is the UK, not even sure that there's a coherent position  on what would be an acceptable settlement in terms of their interests.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68778338

[Maeght]

A bit of advice on that, from Billy Connelly, quite apt at this point in time:
https://youtu.be/8APUM-b4-ns?si=4rjXajNwENn6c7F_

Billy Connelly 

[ad_orientem]

God! This woman is dumb. An amendment to the Ukraine aid bill.

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1780767303732199917?s=19

[ad_orientem]

God! This woman is dumb. An amendment to the Ukraine aid bill.

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1780767303732199917?s=19

And here are some more. This is not a joke. These are real amendments MTG has tabled.
https://twitter.com/KareemRifai/status/1780754606944891242?s=19

[Nearly Sane]

God! This woman is dumb. An amendment to the Ukraine aid bill.

https://twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1780767303732199917?s=19

 
Dangerous

https://youtu.be/8MGzU-FgRwE?si=bpLRr7G9_AvKPvvV

[Nearly Sane]

And here are some more. This is not a joke. These are real amendments MTG has tabled.
https://twitter.com/KareemRifai/status/1780754606944891242?s=19

She's a grifter.

[Nearly Sane]

US aid to Ukraine approved

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-68866766

[ad_orientem]

US aid to Ukraine approved

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-68866766

Yes!💪