Arming the Ukrainians

[ad_orientem]

Today is the tenth anniversary of the shooting down of flight MH17 by russian terrorists. Girkin even boasted about it before the kremlin got a chance to deny it. He should be in a prison in the Hague, not in russia.

[ad_orientem]

Medvedev said that the laws of ancient Babylon authorize Russia to start a nuclear war. You can't make this shit up. LOL!

https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1813562193901682745?s=19

[Spud]

Based. As in well founded. In this case, no land for peace.

Thanks. Yes, as an ideal, maybe it is well founded. In practical terms, I don't see how they can succeed. And the more they refuse to negotiate, the more land they will end up losing.

From the message it looks like they are threatening Zelensky.

[ad_orientem]

Thanks. Yes, as an ideal, maybe it is well founded. In practical terms, I don't see how they can succeed. And the more they refuse to negotiate, the more land they will end up losing.

From the message it looks like they are threatening Zelensky.

As I say to everyone who insists that Ukraine should give up land for peace against their will, do this one thing as a sign of good will and solidarity: Give up 20% of your home to russian rapists and murderers, whilst at least one of your nearest and dearest are in that occupied part as well. Do this first, then I'll might consider taking you seriously.

[Spud]

As I say to everyone who insists that Ukraine should give up land for peace against their will, do this one thing as a sign of good will and solidarity: Give up 20% of your home to russian rapists and murderers, whilst at least one of your nearest and dearest are in that occupied part as well. Do this first, then I'll might consider taking you seriously.

Everybody experiences loss, whether it's the type you describe or something else. I've learned through what I've experienced that fighting against something that is stronger than you doesn't work. If no-one is willing to fight with you or for you then it's better to accept it gracefully and trust that God will bring good out of the situation.
For example, my Dad left my Mum 35 years ago. I thought if I rejected him he might change his mind and go back to Mum, but he didn't. For a while we just hated each other. That just leads to disease, social, psychological and physical. There has to be compromise and live and let live.
I don't agree that Russia wants to murder and rape all Ukrainians, even if it has happened in some instances.

[Nearly Sane]

Everybody experiences loss, whether it's the type you describe or something else. I've learned through what I've experienced that fighting against something that is stronger than you doesn't work. If no-one is willing to fight with you or for you then it's better to accept it gracefully and trust that God will bring good out of the situation.
For example, my Dad left my Mum 35 years ago. I thought if I rejected him he might change his mind and go back to Mum, but he didn't. For a while we just hated each other. That just leads to disease, social, psychological and physical. There has to be compromise and live and let live.
I don't agree that Russia wants to murder and rape all Ukrainians, even if it has happened in some instances.

How many rapes and murders are you happy with?

[Spud]

How many rapes and murders are you happy with?

I'm not happy with any, but I'm much less happy (if that's possible) with hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded forced conscripts.

[ad_orientem]

I'm not happy with any, but I'm much less happy (if that's possible) with hundreds of thousands of dead and wounded forced conscripts.

Yeah! And that could stop today if russian forces just went the fuck home. Until then, they're destined to become part of the meat cube.

[Spud]

Yeah! And that could stop today if russian forces just went the fuck home. Until then, they're destined to become part of the meat cube.

If it wasn't obvious at the beginning, it should be by now that the Russians aren't going home, not even if you use the f-word at them.

[ad_orientem]

If it wasn't obvious at the beginning, it should be by now that the Russians aren't going home, not even if you use the f-word at them.

So what's your solution in such situations? To bend over and let yourself be shafted by bullies? In this case, subject millions of Ukrainians to systematic abduction, torture, rape and murder? Having their children stolen to be brainwashed into "good little russians"? But all of that is just fine with you, it seems, just as long as it's not happening to you.

This war could have been over some time ago had we done everything that was needed and it would have been much cheaper, both in money and in lives, if that really is what you're worried about. It seems the long route then, which russia cannot win. Once russia has killed off all its ethnic minorities in Ukraine, it will have to send actual moskols to the front, and that will be the end for russia.

[ekim]

If it wasn't obvious at the beginning, it should be by now that the Russians aren't going home, not even if you use the f-word at them.

... even if you use any words against those in power if you are a Russian, it seems......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw4yv7nv8xlo

[Spud]

So what's your solution in such situations?

Not to kidnap males over 20-odd and send them to the front. Would you agree that this is never right, even if the other side does it? Nor to try and drag the rest of the world into war. Personally I think that the only justifiable response is sanctions.
If Ukraine had agreed to Russia's terms in March 2022, there would have been no murder, rape and torture, and Donbas would have been two independent states. Zapporozhia and Kherson would still be Ukrainian territory.
Yes, stopping the invasion would have been possible with NATO's modern air capabilities, but never rely on another nation for your own nation's security. That's what the West is doing with Ukraine, and we are now more at risk of nuclear war than we were before.

[Maeght]

Not to kidnap males over 20-odd and send them to the front. Would you agree that this is never right, even if the other side does it? Nor to try and drag the rest of the world into war. Personally I think that the only justifiable response is sanctions.
If Ukraine had agreed to Russia's terms in March 2022, there would have been no murder, rape and torture, and Donbas would have been two independent states. Zapporozhia and Kherson would still be Ukrainian territory.
Yes, stopping the invasion would have been possible with NATO's modern air capabilities, but never rely on another nation for your own nation's security. That's what the West is doing with Ukraine, and we are now more at risk of nuclear war than we were before.

We are only at risk of nuclear war if Russia decides to use them.

[ad_orientem]

We are only at risk of nuclear war if Russia decides to use them.

Well, yes. But they're not. If they were, they would have used them by now. The West keeps on drawing imaginary red lines in fear of "escalation". The West, it seems, still doesn't understand russia, not even after two and a half years of fullscale war. Russia doesn't do anything unless it believes it can get away with it. To be fair, we've made it easy for them. We need to let russia know it can't get away with anymore aggression.

https://youtube.com/shorts/9tFJX-_7eWU?si=WH8HMpZY-uJp6Vhc

[jeremyp]

Not to kidnap males over 20-odd and send them to the front.

You mean like Russia does?

Nor to try and drag the rest of the world into war.

You mean like Russia does?

Personally I think that the only justifiable response is sanctions.

Russia is invading Ukraine. You'll excuse the Ukrainians if they don't believe your sanctions are not going to work in time.

If Ukraine had agreed to Russia's terms in March 2022, there would have been no murder, rape and torture, and Donbas would have been two independent states. Zapporozhia and Kherson would still be Ukrainian territory.

And if Russia hadn't oillegally invaded Ukraine there would have been no murder rape and torture and Donbas, Zapporozhia and Kherson would not be occupied by an evil empire.

Yes, stopping the invasion would have been possible with NATO's modern air capabilities, but never rely on another nation for your own nation's security. That's what the West is doing with Ukraine, and we are now more at risk of nuclear war than we were before.

Actually no. Russia has ground its military down in Ukraine. It will be decades before it has a credible military again, if that.

[Spud]

You mean like Russia does?

Even if Russia kidnaps civilians, it is wrong for Ukraine to do the same, and they do.

[Spud]

And if Russia hadn't oillegally invaded Ukraine there would have been no murder rape and torture and Donbas,

Sure but my point was that there's nothing they can do to stop it.

[jeremyp]

Sure but my point was that there's nothing they can do to stop it.

So they should just roll over and get murdered. Gotcha.

[jeremyp]

Even if Russia kidnaps civilians, it is wrong for Ukraine to do the same, and they do.

It's called conscription and everybody does it when there is a war that is an existential threat. We did it in the First and Second World Wars.

[ad_orientem]

It's called conscription and everybody does it when there is a war that is an existential threat. We did it in the First and Second World Wars.

But don't forget, according to Spud, both wars could have been avoided if we had just given in to the aggressor's territorial demands again, and again, and again...ad infinitum!

[Spud]

It's called conscription and everybody does it when there is a war that is an existential threat. We did it in the First and Second World Wars.

It's called kidnapping and if it leads to death, murder.

So they should just roll over and get murdered. Gotcha.

Would they have been murdered if they had agreed to peace terms?

But don't forget, according to Spud, both wars could have been avoided if we had just given in to the aggressor's territorial demands again, and again, and again...ad infinitum!

You're living in the past.

[Aruntraveller]

You're living in the past.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana.

[ad_orientem]

Would they have been murdered if they had agreed to peace terms?

Yes. We already know that from the areas Ukraine has liberated. Abductions, torture, rape, murder. Mass graves, children's torture chambers. Properties seized, deportations, being forced to take russian passports. Being forced to fight against your own country. Do you know that in Donetsk and Luhansk there are hardly any men left between the ages of 25-50? Russian forces forced them all into meat waves. These are all systematic, deliberate breaches of the Geneva Conventions.

[Spud]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" George Santayana.

Might that be what Bush and Blair said when they went looking for Iraqi WMD? (since Iraq used them in the 80s)

[Spud]

Yes. We already know that from the areas Ukraine has liberated. Abductions, torture, rape, murder. Mass graves, children's torture chambers. Properties seized, deportations, being forced to take russian passports. Being forced to fight against your own country. Do you know that in Donetsk and Luhansk there are hardly any men left between the ages of 25-50? Russian forces forced them all into meat waves. These are all systematic, deliberate breaches of the Geneva Conventions.

But that was after Ukraine rejected the peace agreement. Yes both sides are contravening the Geneva convention, and the individuals responsible should face justice. But the point in question is that if someone else does something that doesn't mean it's acceptable for me to do it.