Author Topic: Arming the Ukrainians  (Read 160123 times)

Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2050 on: November 20, 2024, 06:28:22 PM »
So effectively UK follows Biden?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c20726y20kvt ;So
Britain apparently needs US permission to use them because they have US-made components.

Is there any evidence of North Koreans in Kursk?

Maeght

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2051 on: November 20, 2024, 06:43:05 PM »
Britain apparently needs US permission to use them because they have US-made components.


Isn't it because they need the US satellites for targeting?

ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2052 on: November 21, 2024, 03:14:20 AM »
Isn't it because they need the US satellites for targeting?

Only partially. Storm Shadow has a semi-autonomus guidance system.
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Maeght

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2053 on: November 21, 2024, 05:41:56 AM »
Only partially. Storm Shadow has a semi-autonomus guidance system.

Yes, but for finding suitable targets don't they need US satellites?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2054 on: November 21, 2024, 12:07:39 PM »
'Ukraine says Russia launched an intercontinental ballistic missile for first time in the war' - though this seems not necessarily to have been an ICBM.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-21/ukraine-says-russia-launched-ballistic-missile-for-first-time/104632948

Nearly Sane

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2055 on: November 21, 2024, 08:41:39 PM »
'Ukraine says Russia launched an intercontinental ballistic missile for first time in the war' - though this seems not necessarily to have been an ICBM.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-21/ukraine-says-russia-launched-ballistic-missile-for-first-time/104632948
Apparently a new missile


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4n9vgwnnyo

ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2056 on: November 22, 2024, 02:41:50 AM »
Apparently a new missile


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4n9vgwnnyo

Release the Tomahawks! They have a destiny to be fulfilled in Moscow.
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2057 on: November 22, 2024, 05:21:20 PM »
Release the Tomahawks! They have a destiny to be fulfilled in Moscow.
I would imagine that the moment tomahawk missiles were detected, Russian submarines would launch their equivalent in response. Surely after yesterday you don't still believe they are bluffing?

ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2058 on: November 22, 2024, 07:57:13 PM »
I would imagine that the moment tomahawk missiles were detected, Russian submarines would launch their equivalent in response. Surely after yesterday you don't still believe they are bluffing?

Er, yes I do. But even if they weren't, it'd still be worth it. And for all the "escalation" whiners, build a fucking bunker if you're so worried.
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2059 on: November 23, 2024, 04:15:09 AM »
So Russia has weapons that can take out any target in Europe without being intercepted. Question: if they target the UK's store of nuclear warheads with conventional hypersonic missiles like the Hazel, would those nuclear warheads detonate?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2024, 04:52:16 AM by Spud »

ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2060 on: November 23, 2024, 06:09:02 AM »
So Russia has weapons that can take out any target in Europe without being intercepted. Question: if they target the UK's store of nuclear warheads with conventional hypersonic missiles like the Hazel, would those nuclear warheads detonate?

Oh yeah, because russia is the only country with nuclear weapons. In fact, russian weapons are so good and fast that they arrive at their destination before they press the launch button. The west can only retaliate by throwing stones at them. Well, that's what you lot would have us believe, anyway.
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Maeght

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2061 on: November 23, 2024, 06:57:56 AM »
So Russia has weapons that can take out any target in Europe without being intercepted. Question: if they target the UK's store of nuclear warheads with conventional hypersonic missiles like the Hazel, would those nuclear warheads detonate?

The detonation process for nuclear weapons is very specific and so highly unlikely they would actually detonate.

Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2062 on: November 23, 2024, 10:25:08 AM »
Oh yeah, because russia is the only country with nuclear weapons. In fact, russian weapons are so good and fast that they arrive at their destination before they press the launch button. The west can only retaliate by throwing stones at them. Well, that's what you lot would have us believe, anyway.
Un-interceptable missiles are Russia's answer to the US pulling out of the ABM treaty, iirc. They allow Russia to be able to strike back in the event that they are attacked. This ensures mutually assured destruction.

In the event that Trump pulls US support from Ukraine, and Europe went to war with Russia without the US, the first thing Russia would do is destroy our nuclear deterrent. That would probably cause Europe to think again.

Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2063 on: November 23, 2024, 10:28:43 AM »
The detonation process for nuclear weapons is very specific and so highly unlikely they would actually detonate.
Thanks, I hope you're right.

jeremyp

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2064 on: November 23, 2024, 10:29:57 AM »
Un-interceptable missiles are Russia's answer to the US pulling out of the ABM treaty, iirc. They allow Russia to be able to strike back in the event that they are attacked. This ensures mutually assured destruction.

In the event that Trump pulls US support from Ukraine, and Europe went to war with Russia without the US, the first thing Russia would do is destroy our nuclear deterrent. That would probably cause Europe to think again.

The British nuclear deterrent is in submarines under the sea.
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2065 on: November 23, 2024, 01:26:20 PM »
The British nuclear deterrent is in submarines under the sea.
Most of it is in bunkers in Scotland, but yes, some is in submarines.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2066 on: November 23, 2024, 02:21:07 PM »
Most of it is in bunkers in Scotland, but yes, some is in submarines.
No, it's all in the submarines, which do dock in Scotland but not in bunkers.


Outrider

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2067 on: November 25, 2024, 09:18:10 AM »
So Russia has weapons that can take out any target in Europe without being intercepted.


So they claim and it's possible, though not guaranteed. It's also not a new situation, that's been a concern for decades; it's such a concern, most of Western Europe has been strongly invested in an organisation building a military alliance to make Russia question using such weapons, it's called NATO.

Quote
Question: if they target the UK's store of nuclear warheads with conventional hypersonic missiles like the Hazel, would those nuclear warheads detonate?

It's highly unlikely - the protocols aren't open-source, but just from a safety point of view - that the warheads are armed in storage. That is to say that the explosive spheres that are used to compress the fissile material, and the fissile material itself, will not both be stored within the warheads in storage. The chances of any other explosive force (such as an ICBM detonation) operating in a fashion that would create a fissile chain-reaction to cause a nuclear detonation is unimaginably small.

There may be some active warheads at the HMS Neptune if a boat is in for reloading, but probably not at the back-up facility in Plymouth. Again, even if the warheads are armed, the chance of a missile explosion detonating the nuclear warhead is incredibly remote, although it could send contaminated materials airborne in the debris.

Of course, that's presuming the Russian missiles actually work, and actually go where they're aimed, and aren't targetted as Russian missiles seem to be lately at hospitals, schools, power infrastructure and other illegal civilian targets.

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ad_orientem

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2069 on: December 17, 2024, 11:22:22 AM »
Some details on the Russian general killed in the bomb explosion


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyx4kvz4l0o

ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2070 on: December 18, 2024, 10:08:50 AM »
Some details on the Russian general killed in the bomb explosion


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyx4kvz4l0o

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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2071 on: January 15, 2025, 10:25:14 AM »

So they claim and it's possible, though not guaranteed. It's also not a new situation, that's been a concern for decades; it's such a concern, most of Western Europe has been strongly invested in an organisation building a military alliance to make Russia question using such weapons, it's called NATO.
Wasn't it the USA withdrawing from the Anti Ballistic Missile treaty that made Russia develop these weapons, and wasn't it the US's use of nuclear weapons that made Russia and China develop them?
Who's provoking who? Trump recently said he understands Russia's demand that Ukraine is neutral. Thinking about this, I remembered Putin saying that if one country increases its security at the expense of its neighbour's security, that becomes a threat to the neighbour.

Maeght

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2072 on: January 15, 2025, 10:30:54 AM »
Wasn't it the USA withdrawing from the Anti Ballistic Missile treaty that made Russia develop these weapons, and wasn't it the US's use of nuclear weapons that made Russia and China develop them?

Russia was researching into nuclear weapons before the Second World War. The speed of research was accelerated by the war and the use of weapons by the US but are you suggesting that if that happened that Russia wouldn't have developed nuclear weapons?

ad_orientem

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2073 on: January 23, 2025, 12:29:53 PM »
Another day, another russian war crime. Evidence of russian soldiers executing POW's has increased dramatically recently. You can't negotiate peace with these savages, a nation of rapists and murderers. Russia needs to be burned to the ground.

https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1882364306928619559
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Spud

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Re: Arming the Ukrainians
« Reply #2074 on: January 27, 2025, 04:28:43 AM »
Another day, another russian war crime. Evidence of russian soldiers executing POW's has increased dramatically recently. You can't negotiate peace with these savages, a nation of rapists and murderers. Russia needs to be burned to the ground.

https://x.com/JayinKyiv/status/1882364306928619559
The comment I noted said that if Ukraine surrendered, this would happen on a much wider scale.
What is clear from following what's happening at the front line is that soldiers are ordered to hold their positions without retreating, so they become surrounded and unable to evacuate safely when the order is eventually given. They need to be allowed to retreat before being caught in a cauldron.