Author Topic: The next PM...  (Read 27063 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #100 on: July 20, 2022, 04:04:47 PM »
Rishi Sunak - 137

Penny Mordaunt - 105

Liz Truss - 113


SqueakyVoice

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #101 on: July 20, 2022, 04:34:19 PM »
Well. Keir Starmer it is then.

Just a shame that the Penny has finally dropped.
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Dicky Underpants

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #102 on: July 20, 2022, 04:42:33 PM »
Had to look that up!

She is indeed.

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SusanDoris

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #103 on: July 21, 2022, 06:18:07 AM »
Now that we are stuck with either rishi Sunak or Liz Truss, I do not know which to vote for, but since I definitely don't want Liz Truss, I suppose it will have to be Rishi Sunak ... or stay at home.
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Gordon

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #104 on: July 21, 2022, 08:30:04 AM »
Some thoughts on Sunak vs Truss from today's Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jul/20/britain-next-prime-minister-rishi-sunak-liz-truss-conservative-leader

I'm hoping it is Truss since she is clearly useless, and that might speed the demise of this wretched Tory government.

SqueakyVoice

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #105 on: July 21, 2022, 09:29:42 AM »
... or stay at home.
Stay at home. The tories are suppressing votes all the time.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #106 on: July 21, 2022, 09:47:19 AM »
When looking at this leadership contest and taking the climate crisis into consideration why am I reminded so clearly of this:



Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #107 on: July 21, 2022, 10:14:42 AM »
When looking at this leadership contest and taking the climate crisis into consideration why am I reminded so clearly of this:
That worked much better when it was Johnson who had a Neronian air in that Peter Ustinov would have been casting for Johnson.

https://youtu.be/pBIswXv28GI

Nearly Sane

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #108 on: July 21, 2022, 10:15:38 AM »
Now that we are stuck with either rishi Sunak or Liz Truss, I do not know which to vote for, but since I definitely don't want Liz Truss, I suppose it will have to be Rishi Sunak ... or stay at home.
Not an enviable choice but why specifically not Truss?

Aruntraveller

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #109 on: July 21, 2022, 10:43:39 AM »
That worked much better when it was Johnson who had a Neronian air in that Peter Ustinov would have been casting for Johnson.

https://youtu.be/pBIswXv28GI

Indeed. Although I was thinking more generally about the pledge to remove the green levy and boost production of North Sea gas.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

SqueakyVoice

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #110 on: July 21, 2022, 11:34:41 AM »
Not an enviable choice but why specifically not Truss?

Truss wants to hit the ground running. She's got no idea where she'll be, so she'll hit the wall running.
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SqueakyVoice

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #111 on: July 21, 2022, 11:43:47 AM »
That worked much better when it was Johnson who had a Neronian air in that Peter Ustinov would have been casting for Johnson.
Ustinov died in 2004.

Imagine casting someone completely dead, totally inert, while maggots eat him and even rats turn their noses up at him.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #112 on: July 21, 2022, 11:49:29 AM »
Rishi Sunak - 137

Penny Mordaunt - 105

Liz Truss - 113
So the 170 trend that a new PM will either have held one of the great offices of state or have been leader of the opposition will continue.

Also the stranglehold for Oxford graduates (and PPE at Oxford continues) - I think you have to go back to 1935 for the last PM who was a graduate but not an Oxford graduate (all have been with the exception of Churchill and Major who didn't go to university).

Nearly Sane

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #113 on: July 21, 2022, 11:55:07 AM »
So the 170 trend that a new PM will either have held one of the great offices of state or have been leader of the opposition will continue.

Also the stranglehold for Oxford graduates (and PPE at Oxford continues) - I think you have to go back to 1935 for the last PM who was a graduate but not an Oxford graduate (all have been with the exception of Churchill and Major who didn't go to university).
Gordon Brown

SteveH

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #114 on: July 21, 2022, 11:58:34 AM »
So the 170 trend that a new PM will either have held one of the great offices of state or have been leader of the opposition will continue.

Also the stranglehold for Oxford graduates (and PPE at Oxford continues) - I think you have to go back to 1935 for the last PM who was a graduate but not an Oxford graduate (all have been with the exception of Churchill and Major who didn't go to university).
Callaghan didn't go to University.
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jeremyp

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #115 on: July 21, 2022, 12:24:46 PM »
So the 170 trend that a new PM will either have held one of the great offices of state or have been leader of the opposition will continue.

Also the stranglehold for Oxford graduates (and PPE at Oxford continues) - I think you have to go back to 1935 for the last PM who was a graduate but not an Oxford graduate (all have been with the exception of Churchill and Major who didn't go to university).

Margaret Thatcher did chemistry.

And Tony Blair did jurisprudence.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #116 on: July 21, 2022, 12:31:51 PM »
Gordon Brown
Yes - you are correct.

I got that stat from another site but actually looking again I think this is about PMs who won a general election, which would count out Brown and Callaghan. Of course we won't know whether either Sunak or Truss win a general election for a while, but Starmer is also an Oxford alumnus (at post-grad level), so unless something pretty strange happens I think the next general election will be won (yet again) by an Oxford alumnus.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #117 on: July 21, 2022, 12:35:54 PM »
Margaret Thatcher did chemistry.

And Tony Blair did jurisprudence.
Yes - Oxford PPE is over-represented at the highest levels in politics, but far from universal.

Interesting particle on Oxford PPE:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/feb/23/ppe-oxford-university-degree-that-rules-britain

SteveH

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #118 on: July 21, 2022, 12:39:29 PM »
I believe that the PPE degree was invented by, and is unique to, Oxford. It is obvously tailored for politicians.
When conspiracy nuts start spouting their bollocks, the best answer is "That's what they want you to think".

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #119 on: July 21, 2022, 12:42:37 PM »
I believe that the PPE degree was invented by, and is unique to, Oxford. It is obvously tailored for politicians.
But leads to a very narrow range of experience. If your talent pool becomes so narrow that it is largely focussed on a single University and a single degree programme at that university then you will be ignoring an incredible wealth of talent. My approach (in academia) has always been to cast your net as widely as possible, to ensure the widest possible talent pool. You never quite know where the best person, with the best combination of abilities and hard work ethic might come from.

Nearly Sane

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #120 on: July 21, 2022, 01:48:27 PM »
But leads to a very narrow range of experience. If your talent pool becomes so narrow that it is largely focussed on a single University and a single degree programme at that university then you will be ignoring an incredible wealth of talent. My approach (in academia) has always been to cast your net as widely as possible, to ensure the widest possible talent pool. You never quite know where the best person, with the best combination of abilities and hard work ethic might come from.
It's also then a self fulfilling prophecy, and means that not just is it from a narrow talent pool but that we end up with people who are all very similar. More and more, we get the people who think they might want to go into politocs trying to get into PPE, and then effectively being professional politicians with no outside experience.

The electorate then are given an idea of what a politician is supposed to be like. That many seemed to think Johnson was a 'breath of fresh air' was both laughable and frightening.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #121 on: July 21, 2022, 01:56:17 PM »
It's also then a self fulfilling prophecy, and means that not just is it from a narrow talent pool but that we end up with people who are all very similar. More and more, we get the people who think they might want to go into politocs trying to get into PPE, and then effectively being professional politicians with no outside experience.
I agree - I think it is important for someone suitable for the top job politically to have some very serious political experience, but the 'group-think' that we have at the moment where so many of our top politicians are identical from the point they entered university is concerning.

The electorate then are given an idea of what a politician is supposed to be like. That many seemed to think Johnson was a 'breath of fresh air' was both laughable and frightening.
And the notion that he was somehow anti-establishment when Johnson was achingly establishment - Eton, Oxford PPE (including Bullingdon), brought up to expect the top job.

The most unedifying aspect of Johnson is that I think the country has suffered from a long standing feud dating back to the playing fields of Eton. I don't think that Johnson could stand the fact that Cameron (Eton, Oxford PPE(including Bullingdon)) had got further than him even though he was a couple of years below him, so he had to have the top job too to prove he was as good as his old school chum.

Problem is that if you go into politics to prove that you got one step further than your school chums you are doing it for all the wrong reasons. The only reason to go into politics is to make a difference.

Nearly Sane

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #122 on: July 21, 2022, 02:32:27 PM »
Agree with all of that, but Johnson is a Classics outsider.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #123 on: July 21, 2022, 02:42:26 PM »
Agree with all of that, but Johnson is a Classics outsider.
Oh yes you are right - makes a huge difference.

Eton, Oxford PPE (including uber-elite Bullingdon) vs
Eton, Oxford Classics (including uber-elite Bullingdon)

Chalk and cheese really


Aruntraveller

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Re: The next PM...
« Reply #124 on: July 21, 2022, 03:16:33 PM »
A 2.1 as well.

Still, at least he's not a girly swot.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.