The Ruler's religion

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Joe Biden does not let his catholic religion govern his attitude to Roe v. Wade, in fact he seems to be a doughty champion of it.
If Rishi Sunak becomes Prime minister, how far will he let his religion dictate policy particularly in the areas of Karma. Will he see the unfortunate as hostages to their own Karma, likewise the Rich (or should that be the rish?).

Similarly, his final attitude to death which has occurred on an industrial scale under the Tories...Will this matter since in hindu philosophy we are all supposed to be recycled?

[ProfessorDavey]

Joe Biden does not let his catholic religion govern his attitude to Roe v. Wade, in fact he seems to be a doughty champion of it.
If Rishi Sunak becomes Prime minister, how far will he let his religion dictate policy particularly in the areas of Karma. Will he see the unfortunate as hostages to their own Karma, likewise the Rich (or should that be the rish?).

Similarly, his final attitude to death which has occurred on an industrial scale under the Tories...Will this matter since in hindu philosophy we are all supposed to be recycled?

Why the focus only on Sunak's religion. Mourdant and Tugenhadt are both Catholics, Badenoch is agnostic and no-one seems to have a clue about Truss

[Udayana]

mmm .. but you have no knowledge or understanding of how Biden or Sunak, or anyone else, interpret the ideas and ethical reasoning  of their religions except by the actions they take and the justifications provided.

[SusanDoris]

If that Keni is an atheist, then I incline towards her much more. It indicates that she has thought through the beliefs relying totally on faith since there is not one single scrap of evidence to show the existence of any spirit/dentity/whatever.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Why the focus only on Sunak's religion. Mourdant and Tugenhadt are both Catholics, Badenoch is agnostic and no-one seems to have a clue about Truss

Because he is as they say, the man most likely to.
If you feel like questioning Mordaunt and Tugendaht on where there catholicism leads them please do so.
I doubt their christianity contradicts with the cultural christianity for what it is in our society. What effect though would the philosophies of Karma and Reincarnation have on a devoutly hindu prime minister?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

mmm .. but you have no knowledge or understanding of how Biden or Sunak, or anyone else, interpret the ideas and ethical reasoning  of their religions except by the actions they take and the justifications provided.

But there are established philosophical principles behind Catholicism and hinduism and one can notionally spot possible conflicts between those and the general public philosophy of ''live and let live''.

I don't think your point is therefore valid. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If that Keni is an atheist, then I incline towards her much more. It indicates that she has thought through the beliefs relying totally on faith since there is not one single scrap of evidence to show the existence of any spirit/dentity/whatever.

But Doris, she has a political philosophy which sounds as though it is thatcherite. As a philosophy this has as little to suggest it is good or sound in all circumstances and has plenty of evidence that it isn't in many circumstances.

As a typical tory attention seeker she has been praised by many for her right wing beliefs and her articulation of them.

Thatcherism for me just confirms my belief in human sin particularly greed.
 

[ProfessorDavey]

If that Keni is an atheist, then I incline towards her much more. It indicates that she has thought through the beliefs relying totally on faith since there is not one single scrap of evidence to show the existence of any spirit/dentity/whatever.

Babenoch describes herself as agnostic, but also culturally christian (I think her grandfather was a methodist minister). She also describes herself as "an honorary or associate member of the Catholic Church' - whatever that means, perhaps because her husband is catholic.

But she is no fan of evidence, given that she'd stated that we should scrap our net zero targets.

[ProfessorDavey]

Because he is as they say, the man most likely to.
If you feel like questioning Mordaunt and Tugendaht on where there catholicism leads them please do so.
I doubt their christianity contradicts with the cultural christianity for what it is in our society. What effect though would the philosophies of Karma and Reincarnation have on a devoutly hindu prime minister?

He might be the man most likely to, but he's not the current favourite to become PM - that is Mourdant.

And there is a lot of official catholic teaching that clearly contradicts our cultural norms - e.g. on abortion, contracpetion, equality for women, equality for gay people etc. You've already alluded to this with your comments on Biden and his support for Roe v Wade, even though the RCC position is opposition to abortion in all circumstances. Now I suspect that neither Mourdant nor Tugenhadt accept catholic teaching on these matters (as indeed most catholics in the UK don't), but then Sunak may also not accept certain aspects of Hindu teaching in a similar manner. But I'm also unclear what aspects of Hinduism would cut across our current cultural norms in the manner that RCC teaching on a whole range of key cultural issues does.

Again it seems rather odd to only focus on the religion of one of the candidates.

[Aruntraveller]

If that Keni is an atheist, then I incline towards her much more. It indicates that she has thought through the beliefs relying totally on faith since there is not one single scrap of evidence to show the existence of any spirit/dentity/whatever.

That's just rubbish.

That someone is an atheist or religious is no indicator of how they would perform. Unless of course, you are disowning Mrs Thatcher:

Thatcher has been described as Britain's most religious prime minister since William Ewart Gladstone. She was raised as a Methodist and had preached as such in her Oxford years, but later she became a member of the Church of England. She understood her political convictions in terms of her faith.

I judge politicians by their actions, the policies they support and their voting record. Their religion seldom figures in my thoughts unless they are so batshit crazy that they threaten civil liberties (that is a problem in the US, as yet not so much here).

Anyway, Kemi Badenoch describes herself as a cultural Christian. I have a feeling in my water that she is quite religious and for that reason, I feel slightly uneasy. Still, it is her lack of experience that worries me and her seriously bad analogy of the fact that because she's an engineer she understands how things work.

That's obviously bollocks because it means we'd have car mechanics running the country. Mind you, given the pitiful selection your party has thrown up that might not be such a bad thing.

[ProfessorDavey]

Anyway, Kemi Badenoch describes herself as a cultural Christian. I have a feeling in my water that she is quite religious and for that reason, I feel slightly uneasy.

I doubt that - remember this is the Tory party, stuffed full of practicing christians (way more than broader society). So candidates are much more likely to exaggerate their religiosity rather than underplay it. So if Kemi is actually an active, practicing christian she would say so, it would endear her to the constituencies (MPs and party members) who will decide the election.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

He might be the man most likely to, but he's not the current favourite to become PM - that is Mourdant.

And there is a lot of official catholic teaching that clearly contradicts our cultural norms - e.g. on abortion, contracpetion, equality for women, equality for gay people etc. You've already alluded to this with your comments on Biden and his support for Roe v Wade, even though the RCC position is opposition to abortion in all circumstances. Now I suspect that neither Mourdant nor Tugenhadt accept catholic teaching on these matters (as indeed most catholics in the UK don't), but then Sunak may also not accept certain aspects of Hindu teaching in a similar manner. But I'm also unclear what aspects of Hinduism would cut across our current cultural norms in the manner that RCC teaching on a whole range of key cultural issues does.

Again it seems rather odd to only focus on the religion of one of the candidates.

I think we ought to know whether and what elements of Sunak's he adheres to and what elements he doesn't adhere to and what elements he is prepared to put aside as a public servant. After all it was deemed important for others aspiring to leadership from Biden right back to Tim Farron.

Are you arguing that these previous should not have had focus put on their religion?
Do you not think it was important for people to question whether Farron really wasn't antigay on account of his evangelicalism or Biden really anti abortion on account of his catholicism?

A true belief in the unimportance of death or the law of Karma and the filtering of those philosophies into policy is I think something we should be discussing.

[Aruntraveller]

I doubt that - remember this is the Tory party, stuffed full of practicing christians (way more than broader society). So candidates are much more likely to exaggerate their religiosity rather than underplay it. So if Kemi is actually an active, practicing christian she would say so, it would endear her to the constituencies (MPs and party members) who will decide the election.

Not convinced of that. Depending on which website you go to she is described variously as a "Cultural Christian", an "honourary Catholic" or a "devout Catholic". So sounds a bit as if she is indeed exaggerating it albeit that she may be targeting different sections of the electorate with varying claims.

This is a tweet of hers:

It was the honour of my life to meet His Holiness Pope Francis last week as I promoted the UK’s conference on freedom of religion and belief. #FoRB.


Doesn't sound to me as if she's not religious.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I doubt that - remember this is the Tory party, stuffed full of practicing christians (way more than broader society). So candidates are much more likely to exaggerate their religiosity rather than underplay it. So if Kemi is actually an active, practicing christian she would say so, it would endear her to the constituencies (MPs and party members) who will decide the election.

Why are you focussing on Kemi Badenough's religion particularly as you had the temerity to question why I was focussing on Ritchie Sunak's a few posts ago?

[ProfessorDavey]

Why are you focussing on Kemi Badenough's religion particularly as you had the temerity to question why I was focussing on Ritchie Sunak's a few posts ago?

Only in response to other posters points.

My starting post on this thread gave equal billing to all five candidates.

You on the other hand are clearly obsessing about a single candidate, mentioning just one of five in your OP and seeming only to think that Sunak's religion is important, while Tugenhadt's (unlikely to make it even to the final two) and Mourdant's (the front runner) isn't worthy of comment. Why is that Vlad?

[ProfessorDavey]

I think we ought to know whether and what elements of Sunak's he adheres to and what elements he doesn't adhere to and what elements he is prepared to put aside as a public servant. After all it was deemed important for others aspiring to leadership from Biden right back to Tim Farron.

Are you arguing that these previous should not have had focus put on their religion?
Do you not think it was important for people to question whether Farron really wasn't antigay on account of his evangelicalism or Biden really anti abortion on account of his catholicism?

A true belief in the unimportance of death or the law of Karma and the filtering of those philosophies into policy is I think something we should be discussing.

Sure I think the motivations of all candidates is important - but again why mention only Sunak (from the candidates), why aren't you similarly interested in the others - and particularly Mourdant and Tugenhadt who are adherents of a religion whose teaching is opposed to aspects of our culture and rights that most people think important - namely the choice over abortion and contraception and equal rights for women and gay people.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Sure I think the motivations of all candidates is important - but again why mention only Sunak (from the candidates)

Previously answered. Anything construed by you further to that given is, I would suggest, merely wankfantasy on your part.

[ProfessorDavey]

Previously answered.

Except you haven't, have you Vlad.

Your answers appear to be that it is important to know about Sunak because he's the front runner - except he isn't, Mourdant is and actually in some betting Sunak is third behind Mourdant and Truss.

You other argument is that somehow Sunak's religion is somehow opposed to societal and cultural norms of the UK, while Mourdant and Tugenhadt's isn't. But this is non-sense. I have no idea how a belief in reincarnation might inform a view on abortion, however if your religion teaches that abortion for any reason and at any stage is wrong I can clearly see how that might inform your political views.

It is either relevant to question all candidates on how their religious beliefs may impact their political views and policies or it is off limits for all candidates. My view is the former, but you seem only to see religion as an issue when the person is Hindu but not if they are Catholic - why is that Vlad?

[Sriram]

I think we ought to know whether and what elements of Sunak's he adheres to and what elements he doesn't adhere to and what elements he is prepared to put aside as a public servant. After all it was deemed important for others aspiring to leadership from Biden right back to Tim Farron.

Are you arguing that these previous should not have had focus put on their religion?
Do you not think it was important for people to question whether Farron really wasn't antigay on account of his evangelicalism or Biden really anti abortion on account of his catholicism?

A true belief in the unimportance of death or the law of Karma and the filtering of those philosophies into policy is I think something we should be discussing.

I don't know from where you got the impression that belief in reincarnation and karma makes people indifferent to other peoples suffering!

Mahatma Gandhi, Nehru and many other Indian leaders (Hindus) are known for their strength, compassion and democratic values. 

[Udayana]

But there are established philosophical principles behind Catholicism and hinduism and one can notionally spot possible conflicts between those and the general public philosophy of ''live and let live''.

I don't think your point is therefore valid.

Which "philosophical principles behind hinduism" could possibly conflict with "live and let live"?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I don't know from where you got the impression that belief in reincarnation and karma makes people indifferent to other peoples suffering!

Mahatma Gandhi, Nehru and many other Indian leaders (Hindus) are known for their strength, compassion and democratic values.

As in Britain and the west there is and has been a tolerance mainly by conservative parties of a dramatic contrast between rich and poor and this has been the case in the east. This is because of different reasons I would move.

Sunak is no Gandhi. He is not a progressive. Gandhi was prepared to lay a lot of tradition aside it seems to me and is not your typical holy man either of the east and west, I would move.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Which "philosophical principles behind hinduism" could possibly conflict with "live and let live"?

Live and let's have a caste system perhaps?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Except you haven't, have you Vlad.

Your answers appear to be that it is important to know about Sunak because he's the front runner - except he isn't, Mourdant is and actually in some betting Sunak is third behind Mourdant and Truss.

You other argument is that somehow Sunak's religion is somehow opposed to societal and cultural norms of the UK, while Mourdant and Tugenhadt's isn't. But this is non-sense. I have no idea how a belief in reincarnation might inform a view on abortion, however if your religion teaches that abortion for any reason and at any stage is wrong I can clearly see how that might inform your political views.

It is either relevant to question all candidates on how their religious beliefs may impact their political views and policies or it is off limits for all candidates. My view is the former, but you seem only to see religion as an issue when the person is Hindu but not if they are Catholic - why is that Vlad?

Of course he's the front runner. He's been out in front in two rounds of polling.

Actually, I'm not sure if thinking that your situation in life is down to Karma is that different in outcome from the anglicanism of CF Alexander ''The Rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate, he made them high and lowly and ordered their estate'' or social darwinianism, or ''you just make your own luck in this world''.
But we need to know where those with a sniff of the top job stand on these issues certainly.

Me, only seeing religion if the person is a hindu is as I say just one of the many wankfantasies you've had. 

[SteveH]

Sunak is an intelligent, modern sophisticate. I doubt that he believes much of traditional Hinduism. Anyway, as far as abelief in reincarnation making you care less about life is concerned, one could say the same about Christianity's belief in heaven.

[Udayana]

Live and let's have a caste system perhaps?

The caste system continues to exist to the shame of most hindus. It's not a religious or philosophical principle, but a form of political control that is now discredited and, at least on paper, discrimination on the basis of caste is illegal in India. In fact there are many affirmative action schemes in place to correct or compensate for inequalities resulting from past injustices - a form of "levelling up".

Still not seeing how this relates to Hindu politicians in the UK unless you know how they interpret their religious inheritance and apply it to political issues here.