Author Topic: Rings of Power  (Read 1364 times)

jeremyp

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Rings of Power
« on: September 25, 2022, 11:10:14 AM »
Anybody else been watching the new Amazon series Rings of Power?

Before it started, it attracted a lot of criticism for casting black actors in some roles (for the diversity quotient) and allegedly not sticking to the Tolkien lore.

Anyway, Ive seen the first three episodes and discovered that I don't care about any of that. On the other hand, the writing is terrible and there are no likeable characters and it's incredibly boring. As my memory of reading LotR as an eleven year old is of tedium, they at least get that aspect right.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2022, 11:18:13 AM »
I've never really recovered from that making The Hobbit 529,046 films that took over 20 millenia to watch. I gave up after an hour and half when they hadn't left the burrow.

And given this was all going to be the bits of Tolkien that weren't good enough to be in LotR, it was always going to be a miss. I care nary a jot about the casting.

jeremyp

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2022, 11:22:11 AM »
I've never really recovered from that making The Hobbit 529,046 films that took over 20 millenia to watch. I gave up after an hour and half when they hadn't left the burrow.

I managed to get through the first film and found I didn't really care what happened after that. I assume it's similar to the book.

Quote
And given this was all going to be the bits of Tolkien that weren't good enough to be in LotR, it was always going to be a miss.

Not necessarily. They could have built something good with talented writers.

Quote
I care nary a jot about the casting.

But Lenny Henry is in it!
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Anchorman

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2022, 02:15:15 PM »
I think I've been spoiled, having read The Silmarrilion, Fall of Gondolin, Sons of Gurin and Beren and Luthien.
When images of a 'younger' Galadriel appeared, I lost interest.
Galadriel came from Eldamar - there are hints in LOTR and the Silmarillion that she spent time in Valinor itself - before coming to Eregion in Middle Earth already an unchanging being.
Howzat for geekery?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2022, 12:15:15 AM »
I think I've been spoiled, having read The Silmarrilion, Fall of Gondolin, Sons of Gurin and Beren and Luthien.
When images of a 'younger' Galadriel appeared, I lost interest.
Galadriel came from Eldamar - there are hints in LOTR and the Silmarillion that she spent time in Valinor itself - before coming to Eregion in Middle Earth already an unchanging being.
Howzat for geekery?
I would rather eat my leg.

SteveH

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2022, 07:29:00 AM »
I really must re-read 'The Hobbit', 'LotR', and 'The Silmarillion' again: alll flawed in various ways, but still great. The Silmarillion, being less of a single story, drags a bit in places, but is rather moving in other places. I haven't seen any of the films.
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ad_orientem

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2022, 07:34:09 AM »
I don't think I'll bother watching this. I love the books too much and I know I'll just be disappointed, continually picking holes in the thing.
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Anchorman

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2022, 08:27:24 AM »
I really must re-read 'The Hobbit', 'LotR', and 'The Silmarillion' again: alll flawed in various ways, but still great. The Silmarillion, being less of a single story, drags a bit in places, but is rather moving in other places. I haven't seen any of the films.
   



If you like the Silmarillion (and it's not to everyone's taste) try "Beren anf Luthien" or "The fall of Gondolin".
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2022, 08:33:14 AM »
I don't think I'll bother watching this. I love the books too much and I know I'll just be disappointed, continually picking holes in the thing.
   
When the first of Jackson's LOTR trilogy, "Fellowship....." hit the screens, I went to see it with a friend.
They nearly had to expel me.......
Where the hell was Bombadil?
What about the 'Barrow downs" - which would prove very significant in the third part - Return of the King?
Yes, I know they had to play with the plot to make it fit three movies, but to play fast and loose with essential bits was nothing short of criminal.
They tried to cram bits of the LOTR appendices into "The Hobbit" trilogy without much success. Brilliant scenery and CGI couldn't disguise the holes.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

ad_orientem

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2022, 10:10:22 AM »
   
When the first of Jackson's LOTR trilogy, "Fellowship....." hit the screens, I went to see it with a friend.
They nearly had to expel me.......
Where the hell was Bombadil?
What about the 'Barrow downs" - which would prove very significant in the third part - Return of the King?
Yes, I know they had to play with the plot to make it fit three movies, but to play fast and loose with essential bits was nothing short of criminal.
They tried to cram bits of the LOTR appendices into "The Hobbit" trilogy without much success. Brilliant scenery and CGI couldn't disguise the holes.

Agreed. Many of the changes made to the story in LOTR were completely unnecessary, for example the reforging of the sword and Arwen's expanded role irked me. Timelines also were messed up or ambiguous at best. Watched the first part of The Hobbit, half of the second but couldn't stomach any more than that.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2022, 10:11:41 AM »
   
When the first of Jackson's LOTR trilogy, "Fellowship....." hit the screens, I went to see it with a friend.
They nearly had to expel me.......
Where the hell was Bombadil?
What about the 'Barrow downs" - which would prove very significant in the third part - Return of the King?
Yes, I know they had to play with the plot to make it fit three movies, but to play fast and loose with essential bits was nothing short of criminal.
They tried to cram bits of the LOTR appendices into "The Hobbit" trilogy without much success. Brilliant scenery and CGI couldn't disguise the holes.
They had 73 endings, they could have fitted the War and Peace in easily. They took the Tom Bombadil stuff out because even they could see it's tedious beyond measure. Tolkien created a world but couldn't stop being boring about it. I like The Hobbit - it's fast and the plot points for other more boring shite doesn't get in the way. LotR is at best twice as long as it should be. The rest...


I think it would be hard to choose to write a more boring book than The Silmarillion.

ad_orientem

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2022, 10:14:37 AM »
Heathen! ;)
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Anchorman

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2022, 10:25:38 AM »
They had 73 endings, they could have fitted the War and Peace in easily. They took the Tom Bombadil stuff out because even they could see it's tedious beyond measure. Tolkien created a world but couldn't stop being boring about it. I like The Hobbit - it's fast and the plot points for other more boring shite doesn't get in the way. LotR is at best twice as long as it should be. The rest...


I think it would be hard to choose to write a more boring book than The Silmarillion.
   


That'll be where we differ, NS.
In his intro to a later edition of LOTR, the author admitted that some of his correspondants were correct - LOTR was too short!
Much of his imaginary world had been created whilst he was in the trenches of WWI; the vast histories, languages, many of the legends had been put on paper before 'The Hobbit' which was in essence a bedtime story for his son, was published in 1937. More work on the First and Second Ages followed during the second world war, before 'Fellowship" was published.
That's why, after his death, his son, Christopher - himself, like his father, a linguistic expert - spent decades putting most of the vast amounts of notes together, and we now have six further volumes which delve deep into the mistique of Tolkien's world, incorporating his vast knowledge of pre-Christian Celtic, Norse and Saxon poetic styles.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Nearly Sane

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2022, 11:27:41 AM »
Whether it's apocryphal or not, I am in 'not more fucking elves' territory.

Anchorman

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2022, 12:19:13 PM »
Whether it's apocryphal or not, I am in 'not more fucking elves' territory.
   

In his 'other' life, Tolkien's genious for language shows in his brilliant translation of Beowulf and other Saxon tales into readable English.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Anchorman

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2022, 12:44:39 PM »
This is one of a series of rather good videos on Middle Earth...if you can't get to grips with the Silmarillion, perhaps this might clear the fog a little.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ASczpKhXWs
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

jeremyp

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2022, 01:19:43 PM »
Whether it's apocryphal or not, I am in 'not more fucking elves' territory.

In early drafts of LotR, the elves were goblins and Steider's name was Trotter.

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Dicky Underpants

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2022, 03:49:48 PM »
   
When the first of Jackson's LOTR trilogy, "Fellowship....." hit the screens, I went to see it with a friend.
They nearly had to expel me.......
Where the hell was Bombadil?
What about the 'Barrow downs" - which would prove very significant in the third part - Return of the King?
Yes, I know they had to play with the plot to make it fit three movies, but to play fast and loose with essential bits was nothing short of criminal.
They tried to cram bits of the LOTR appendices into "The Hobbit" trilogy without much success. Brilliant scenery and CGI couldn't disguise the holes.
Bombadil has nothing to do with the basic plot. Whose side would he be on in the war? It was hard enough to stir up the Ents, but old Tom....?
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Dicky Underpants

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2022, 03:55:32 PM »
I've never really recovered from that making The Hobbit 529,046 films that took over 20 millenia to watch. I gave up after an hour and half when they hadn't left the burrow.

And given this was all going to be the bits of Tolkien that weren't good enough to be in LotR, it was always going to be a miss. I care nary a jot about the casting.
Saw part of one episode, and have already forgotten the content completely. As for making the Hobbit after LOTR, all rather pointless, since LOTR was the ultimate culmination of the saga which began with Bilbo and Gollum.
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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2022, 06:36:12 PM »
Bombadil has nothing to do with the basic plot. Whose side would he be on in the war? It was hard enough to stir up the Ents, but old Tom....?
   
While he was unaffected by the Ring, the events of the chapters from "The Old Forest" to "Fog on the Barrow downs" are significant - since the weapon that eventually kills the Witch King of Angmar, leader of the Nine, was given to Meriadoc by Bombadil. The combination of the origin of the knife and the fact that it was a non-human who wielded it were the crucial factor.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2022, 03:54:43 PM »
   
While he was unaffected by the Ring, the events of the chapters from "The Old Forest" to "Fog on the Barrow downs" are significant - since the weapon that eventually kills the Witch King of Angmar, leader of the Nine, was given to Meriadoc by Bombadil. The combination of the origin of the knife and the fact that it was a non-human who wielded it were the crucial factor.

Ah - I note that in the film, the Barrow swords are given to the Hobbits by Aragorn. That helps the plot along a bit, without the intervention of a character who seems more like the King of the May than a valiant hero. But there again, in the film, I see that the original swords get lost, and it is an ordinary sword that kills the WKofA. I don't know that I should be greatly concerned.
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Anchorman

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2022, 04:09:21 PM »
Ah - I note that in the film, the Barrow swords are given to the Hobbits by Aragorn. That helps the plot along a bit, without the intervention of a character who seems more like the King of the May than a valiant hero. But there again, in the film, I see that the original swords get lost, and it is an ordinary sword that kills the WKofA. I don't know that I should be greatly concerned.
 



LOTR hangs together on symbols, DU....things the movies gloss over, such as the green stone Aragorn wears, the White Tree, the light from Earendil's star (the silmaril) captured in the gift Galadriel gives Frodo, etc. These, and others, drag the reader into an older world - in the case of the White Tree, the First Age itself....that kind of thing is lost in the movies, along with the poetry and song.
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."

Dicky Underpants

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2022, 04:28:42 PM »
 



LOTR hangs together on symbols, DU....things the movies gloss over, such as the green stone Aragorn wears, the White Tree, the light from Earendil's star (the silmaril) captured in the gift Galadriel gives Frodo, etc. These, and others, drag the reader into an older world - in the case of the White Tree, the First Age itself....that kind of thing is lost in the movies, along with the poetry and song.

The radio version did pretty well for poetry and song, with music by the late Stephen Oliver.
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Le Bon David

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Re: Rings of Power
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2022, 06:13:42 PM »
The radio version did pretty well for poetry and song, with music by the late Stephen Oliver.
   



Yes - I have the set on audio CD.#
"for, as long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself."