Good without God

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If you can be ''good'' without God as the Humanists say. Why isn't everyone ''good''?

[Nearly Sane]

If you can be ''good'' without God as the Humanists say. Why isn't everyone ''good''?

If you can lose weight through dieting and exercise as Weightwatchers say, why isn't everyone slim?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

If you can lose weight through dieting and exercise as Weightwatchers say, why isn't everyone slim?

That is answering a question with a question. I would be interested to see if the Humanists are actually surveying who's good and how many. That would be scientific.

Why isn't everybody slim is a good question though since Weight is the evil according to weightwatchers.......any answers?

[Nearly Sane]

That is answering a question with a question. I would be interested to see if the Humanists are actually surveying who's good and how many. That would be scientific.

Why isn't everybody slim is a good question though since Weight is the evil according to weightwatchers.......any answers?

It's pointing out that it's a stupid question by using the second question as a reductio. Your structure implies that anything that someone says can be done will be done by everyone. There's (a) no reason to make that jump, and (b) contains a logical contradiction since two seperate groups could argue for A/Not A and your construction means that you think both would be implied to happen.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's pointing out that it's a stupid question by using the second question as a reductio. Your structure implies that anything that someone says can be done will be done by everyone. There's (a) no reason to make that jump, and (b) contains a logical contradiction since two seperate groups could argue for A/Not A and your construction means that you think both would be implied to happen.

The humanists say you can be good without God... so why isn't everybody taking the decision to be Good?
''Because they aren't'' doesn't seem to be addressing any question.

There used to be a saying drawn from an advert ''What's your secret champ?'' I wonder if any Humanist actually has any working out on how you can be good without God.

[Maeght]

The humanists say you can be good without God... so why isn't everybody taking the decision to be Good?

Lots of reasons. Self interest,lack of empathy for others, mental illness, poor upbringing, life situation means they have to .......

[Nearly Sane]

The humanists say you can be good without God... so why isn't everybody taking the decision to be Good?

You haven't showed why everybody will based on the Humanists statement. And you've just ignored that I pointed out that your construction leads to both A and Non A being implied so is logically incoherent.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Lots of reasons. Self interest,lack of empathy for others, mental illness, poor upbringing, life situation means they have to .......

But these can be overcome apparently because according to the Humanists you can be good without God...so how's it done?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You haven't showed why everybody will based on the Humanists statement. And you've just ignored that I pointed out that your construction leads to both A and Non A being implied so is logically incoherent.

Maeght had no difficulty answering though.

[Maeght]

But these can be overcome apparently because according to the Humanists you can be good without God...so how's it done?

So, a different question now. They can be overcome but not always. Depends. Not sure what point you are making.

[Maeght]

Maeght had no difficulty answering though.

Doesn't mean much

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Doesn't mean much

Nearly Sane is in the premier division to my southern league.

[Maeght]

Nearly Sane is in the premier division to my southern league.

So what am I?

On second thoughts, don't answer that.

[Nearly Sane]

Maeght had no difficulty answering though.

And? I think he's answering a pointless illogical question. I've explained why I think it is that. That someone 'answered' it is irrelevant to my argument.

[Maeght]

And? I think he's answering a pointless illogical question. I've explained why I think it is that. That someone 'answered' it is irrelevant to my argument.

That's why I said it doesn't mean much 

[Sebastian Toe]

If you can be ''good'' without God as the Humanists say. Why isn't everyone ''good''?

Maybe everyone is.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Maybe everyone is.

Really? Tell on.

[Sebastian Toe]

Really? Tell on.

Maybe.
You don't agree?

[Sriram]

Being good and selfless depends on ones spiritual level. Nothing to do with believing in a God. A person can be highly developed spiritually and still not believe in a God.  A person can be less developed and still believe in a God.

People of higher spiritual development have more of the 'divine' element and less of the animal element. This makes them more universal and compassionate and less insecure about their own survival and significance.

Belief in God is cultural and depends on ones upbringing and community.

[Maeght]

Being good and selfless depends on ones spiritual level. Nothing to do with believing in a God. A person can be highly developed spiritually and still not believe in a God.  A person can be less developed and still believe in a God.

People of higher spiritual development have more of the 'divine' element and less of the animal element. This makes them more universal and compassionate and less insecure about their own survival and significance.

Belief in God is cultural and depends on ones upbringing and community.

We are animals. Anything we do reflects human nature - good or bad. Behaviours depnd on many elements as I mentioned and don't see any such thing as spiritual development.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Being good and selfless depends on ones spiritual level. Nothing to do with believing in a God. A person can be highly developed spiritually and still not believe in a God.  A person can be less developed and still believe in a God.

People of higher spiritual development have more of the 'divine' element and less of the animal element. This makes them more universal and compassionate and less insecure about their own survival and significance.

Belief in God is cultural and depends on ones upbringing and community.

Straight of the bat Sriram I think you are using the term spiritual development a bit shamanically here.

In my opinion there is perhaps less of a consciousness or theological development of notions of good and evil the more 'east' one gets...and I include the Eastern Orthodox church in that.

Feel free to comeback.

[Nearly Sane]

Straight of the bat Sriram I think you are using the term spiritual development a bit shamanically here.

In my opinion there is perhaps less of a consciousness or theological development of notions of good and evil the more 'east' one gets...and I include the Eastern Orthodox church in that.

Feel free to comeback.

Aren't you using the term 'theological' there shamanically?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Aren't you using the term 'theological' there shamanically?

I don't think so since the title is Good without God and theology is to do with the things of God. In Sriram's scheme God is a minor consideration here and secondary to spiritual development whatever that means.

The Humanist slogan good without God is I believe based on a myth agnostics, atheists and apatheists have concerning the religious who they take as holier than thou and seeing themselves as Good and everybody else as the sinners. The truth is they see themselves as sinners. Good without God is based on brushes with christians and christianity rather than engagement IMV.

I haven't seen a manifesto from Humanist UK on how to be Good so perhaps it is a low priority for them.

[jeremyp]

If you can be ''good'' without God as the Humanists say. Why isn't everyone ''good''?

Probably for the same reason that not all theists are good.

And theists have the additional motivation of burning in hell if they aren't good.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Probably for the same reason that not all theists are good.

And theists have the additional motivation of burning in hell if they aren't good.

That doesn’t look like the Gospel where people can come to Christ because they aren’t good. I only speak for Christianity, here.