Sturgeon to resign as FM

[Nearly Sane]

Cue gossip

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64647907

[Nearly Sane]

In general good speech but haunted by self indulgence.

[ProfessorDavey]

In general good speech but haunted by self indulgence.

Way too long and definitely self indulgent. But I guess when you are the leader of something close to a one party state (by 'state' I mean Scotland*) and certainly in Westminster terms (by which I mean the 59 Scottish Westminster seats*) then it becomes likely that you'll end up believing the hyperbole.

*Edited to provide absolute clarity as to what I mean to avoid accidental or deliberate misrepresentation.

[Nearly Sane]

Way too long and definitely self indulgent. But I guess when you are the leader of something close to a one party state (certainly in Westminster terms) then it becomes likely that you'll end up believing the hyperbole.

Amazingly in criticising hyperbole you managed to provide a perfect example 'one party state'!

[ProfessorDavey]

Amazingly in criticising hyperbole you managed to provide a perfect example 'one party state'!

Nice bit of mis-quoting NS.

"... close to a one party state (certainly in Westminster terms) ..."

So in the elections she was leader.

Westminster result 2019
SNP 48 out of 59 seats - in other words over 80% of the seats.
Westminster result 2017
SNP 35 out of 59 seats - in other words approx 60% of the seats - clearly an appalling result, compared to.
Westminster result 2015
SNP 56 out of 59 seats - in other words approx 95% of the seats

Sounds pretty close to a one party state to me - I think my comment is demonstrably accurate.

[Nearly Sane]

Nice bit of mis-quoting NS.

"... close to a one party state (certainly in Westminster terms) ..."

Westminster result 2019
SNP 48 out of 59 seats - in other words over 80% of the seats. Sounds pretty close to a one party state to me - I think my comment is demonstrably accurate.

It's 48 of 650 in Westminster terms.

[ProfessorDavey]

It's 48 of 650 in Westminster terms.

Err - the SNP only contest 59 seats so their results elsewhere are, obviously, not relevant as there are no results.

In Scotland (clearly this is the 'state' I was discussing) in the 3 elections she has fought the SNP have won between 60% and 95% of the seats they contested.

And actually that is clear in the tone of her speech - she, along with the SNP and before her Salmond have dominated politics in Scotland in a manner that hasn't been replicated in other parts of the UK. Her speech came across as the words of the overwhelmingly dominant force (her) within the overwhelmingly dominant force (the SNP) in Scottish politics.

[Nearly Sane]

Err - the SNP only contest 59 seats so their results elsewhere are, obviously, not relevant as there are no results.

In Scotland (clearly this is the 'state' I was discussing) in the 3 elections she has fought the SNP have won between 60% and 95% of the seats they contested.

And actually that is clear in the tone of her speech - she, along with the SNP and before her Salmond have dominated politics in Scotland in a manner that hasn't been replicated in other parts of the UK. Her speech came across as the words of the overwhelmingly dominant force (her) within the overwhelmingly dominant force (the SNP) in Scottish politics.

And there are 650 seats in Westminster terms which is what you introduced.

[ProfessorDavey]

And there are 650 seats in Westminster terms which is what you introduced.

Of which 59 are in Scotland, which are the only relevant ones in relation to whether the SNP dominates Scottish Westminster seats.

And in 2021 the SNP won 62 out of 73 Scottish Parliamentary constituencies - so 85%.

I cannot think of any other example of a party being so dominant in constituency votes - even Blair's best result in 1997 (surely the touchstone for dominance in UK terms) is closer to Sturgeon's worst result than her best.

[Nearly Sane]

Of which 59 are in Scotland, which are the only relevant ones in relation to whether the SNP dominates Scottish Westminster seats.

And in 2021 the SNP won 62 out of 73 Scottish Parliamentary constituencies - so 85%.

I cannot think of any other example of a party being so dominant in constituency votes - even Blair's best result in 1997 (surely the touchstone for dominance in UK terms) is closer to Sturgeon's worst result than her best.

And you said a 'one party state (certainly in Westminster terms)' and Westminster has 650 seats.

[ProfessorDavey]

And you said a 'one party state (certainly in Westminster terms)' and Westminster has 650 seats.

To clarify (in case it wasn't obvious, which of course it was) - the 'state' I am talking about is Scotland, not the UK - clearly Sturgeon hasn't dominated UK politics, but she has dominated Scottish politics.

So in Westminster terms - the state of Scotland has 59 seats - in her three elections she has won 60%, 80% and 95% of those seats. And to compare apples with apples, in the most recent Scottish Parliamentary election won 85% of the constituency contests.

[Nearly Sane]

To clarify (in case it wasn't obvious, which of course it was) - the 'state' I am talking about is Scotland, not the UK - clearly Sturgeon hasn't dominated UK politics, but she has dominated Scottish politics.

So in Westminster terms - the state of Scotland has 59 seats - in her three elections she has won 60%, 80% and 95% of those seats.

  You seem awfully confused about UK democracy, and indeed what a one party state is. You said Westminster terms - for elections to Westminster a seat in Truro is the same as Tighnabruich - so 48 out of 650.

[Nearly Sane]

The press at the press conference ignored until Glen Campbell's last question after it had finished the whole issue of finances and loans - which seems amateurish to me.

[ProfessorDavey]

  You seem awfully confused about UK democracy, and indeed what a one party state is. You said Westminster terms - for elections to Westminster a seat in Truro os the same as Tighnabruich - so 48 out of 650.

But the SNP don't stand in Truro - they only stand in Scotland - and to determine whether a person or a party dominates politics in Scotland then the result in Truro is, of course, completely irrelevant.

[Nearly Sane]

But the SNP don't stand in Truro - they only stand in Scotland - and to determine whether a person or a party dominates politics in Scotland then the result in Truro is, of course, completely irrelevant.

And yet as MPs they sit in Westminster and in Westminster terms, which is what you wrote, they are part of a state represented by 650 MPs, including Truro.

[Nearly Sane]

 Some chat about this being behind it


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-64562832.amp

[ProfessorDavey]

And yet as MPs they sit in Westminster and in Westminster terms, which is what you wrote, they are part of a state represented by 650 MPs, including Truro.

Are you being deliberately argumentative (I think I know the answer to that!).

I have clearly clarified that in terms of a 'state' in my original comment I meant Scotland - and if you are considering Scotland, as I was, there are only 59 seats in play in Westminster last time I looked, not 650.

In terms of whether Sturgeon or the SNP dominate politics in Scotland the result in Truro is of no relevance - the only relevant seats are the 59 Scottish Westminster seats.

[ProfessorDavey]

And yet as MPs they sit in Westminster and in Westminster terms, which is what you wrote, they are part of a state represented by 650 MPs, including Truro.

Is Truro a Scottish Westminster seat NS? Maybe the border got moved when I wasn't looking.

[Nearly Sane]

Are you being deliberately argumentative (I think I know the answer to that!).

I have clearly clarified that in terms of a 'state' in my original comment I meant Scotland - and if you are considering Scotland there are only 59 seats in play in Westminster last time I looked, not 650.

In terms of whether Sturgeon or the SNP dominate politics in Scotland the result in Truro is of no relevance - the only relevant seats are the 59 Scottish Westminster seats.

In 'Westminster terms', as to what is a state, they are entirely relevant. How many MPs are there in the state in 'Westminster terms'?

[Nearly Sane]

Is Truro a Scottish Westminster seat NS? Maybe the border got moved when I wasn't looking.

It is a seat in Westminster terms.

[Nearly Sane]

Seen a few comments elsewhere about how Sturgeon did well during Covid. Not my perception. She spoke better than Johnson and gave the appearance of caring but policy...

[ProfessorDavey]

In 'Westminster terms', as to what is a state, they are entirely relevant. How many MPs are there in the state in 'Westminster terms'?

No they aren't - in terms of whether the SNP and/or Sturgeon dominates Scottish politics the only relevant seats are the 59 Scottish Westminster seats.

Maybe we can look at it a different way - can you think of any other single election (or set of elections on a single day e.g. local elections) in the UK where one political party has won 95% of the seats where they put up candidates.

[ProfessorDavey]

It is a seat in Westminster terms.

It isn't a Scottish Westminster seat so irrelevant in terms of which party dominates Scottish politics. Likewise results in Edinburgh South are irrelevant to discussion of dominant parties in politics in Cornwall.

[Nearly Sane]

It isn't a Scottish Westminster seat so irrelevant in terms of which party dominates Scottish politics. Likewise results in Edinburgh South are irrelevant to discussion of dominant parties in politics in Cornwall.

In Westminster terms, the phrase you used, there is no difference.

[Nearly Sane]

No they aren't - in terms of whether the SNP and/or Sturgeon dominates Scottish politics the only relevant seats are the 59 Scottish Westminster seats.

Maybe we can look at it a different way - can you think of any other single election, or set of elections on a single day (e.g. local elections) in the UK where one party has won 95% of the seats where they put up candidates.

In Westminster terms they have about 8% of seats.