Sturgeon to resign as FM

[ProfessorDavey]

Organisations are just made up of people.

But organisations develop and promulgate 'official' organisational positions on certain matters. And the people who are members of that organisation may or may not also agree with those positions - so for example Blackford and Forbes are, apparently, both members of the same religious organisation but their personal positions on gay marriage and abortion seem very different based on Blackford's tweets and Forbes comments at the prayer breakfast and today on BBC.

If I don't respect someone's religious beliefs , how is that difficult from not respecting what someone's beliefs are on sexuality?

Someone's beliefs on sexuality or someone's sexuality? Two different things NS.

[Nearly Sane]

But organisations develop and promulgate 'official' organisational positions on certain matters. And the people who are members of that organisation may or may not also agree with those positions - so for example Blackford and Forbes are, apparently, both members of the same religious organisation but their personal positions on gay marriage and abortion seem very different based on Blackford's tweets and Forbes comments at the prayer breakfast and today on BBC.
Someone's beliefs on sexuality or someone's sexuality? Two different things NS.

I respect neither Blackford's nor Forbes's belief in the Wee Free religion.

I don't respect anyone for their sexuality.

[Nearly Sane]

Regan definitely going for the not the Green Party person vote

[ProfessorDavey]

I respect neither Blackford's nor Forbes's belief in the Wee Free religion.

But based on their pronouncement's their individual views on gay marriage and abortion appear to be rather different. Forbes' views seem much more aligned with the 'official' line of the wee frees in comparison with Blackford. Indeed Blackford seems to have incurred the wrath of the wee free hierarchy for voting in favour of allowing abortion and equal marriage in Northern Ireland.

So I don't see individuals who are religious, as necessarily having viewed that are synonymous with the official line of the religion of which they are a member. Nor do I assume that two people who are both members of the same religion will necessarily have similar views. Hence my focus on the expressed views of Forbes and Blackford rather than their membership of the wee frees per se.

[Nearly Sane]

But based on their pronouncement's their individual views on gay marriage and abortion appear to be rather different. Forbes' views seem much more aligned with the 'official' line of the wee frees in comparison with Blackford. Indeed Blackford seems to have incurred the wrath of the wee free hierarchy for voting in favour of allowing abortion and equal marriage in Northern Ireland.

So I don't see individuals who are religious, as necessarily having viewed that are synonymous with the official line of the religion of which they are a member. Nor do I assume that two people who are both members of the same religion will necessarily have similar views. Hence my focus on the expressed views of Forbes and Blackford rather than their membership of the wee frees per se.

I don't see them as having the same views either.

[ProfessorDavey]

Regan definitely going for the not the Green Party person vote

From what I can see only Yousuf of the declared candidates would be likely to keep the deal with the Greens intact.

[ProfessorDavey]

I don't see them as having the same views either.

Nor either of them necessarily having the same views as the 'official' views of the wee free church?

[Nearly Sane]

Nor either of them necessarily having the same views as the 'official' views of the wee free church?

No. Though I would suggest that being an atheist Wee Free is not possible.


With Forbes declaring she wouldn't have voted for same sex marriage, I think that may be her very unlikely to win. In one way I'm impressed. I am old enough to remember when the SNP and Sturgeon's views on repealing Clause 28 were influenced by Brian Soutar's cash.

[Nearly Sane]

From what I can see only Yousuf of the declared candidates would be likely to keep the deal with the Greens intact.

Yes, I mentioned that earlier but Regan's comments today such as the one on the A9 are about staking out a claim to those not persuaded by the coalition.

[ProfessorDavey]

With Forbes declaring she wouldn't have voted for same sex marriage, I think that may be her very unlikely to win.

Has she said that - that didn't seem to be in the BBC piece. If she has said that, and added to her BBC pronouncement she seems absolutely all over the place. So piecing things together we seem to have:

She thinks gay marriage is morally wrong.
She would have voted against gay marriage

So far so consistent but also so toxic surely for her campaign.

But she somehow supports a law that she, err, would have opposed. Or is it that she simply supports laws in a general sense.
And that she doesn't want gay people to suffer harassment or fear (wow that's big of her), while thinking that their relationships are morally wrong and had she had the chance she's have tried to prevent them from being able to get married.

Oh and she wants more protection for those poor persecuted religious people!

Certainly all the betting momentum currently seems to be with Yousuf.

[ProfessorDavey]

In one way I'm impressed.

What, by someone opposing the right for some people to be able marry because they are gay. Impressed is not a word I'd use for this.

[Nearly Sane]

See below on Forbes statement on same sex marriage

[Nearly Sane]

What, by someone opposing the right for some people to be able marry because they are gay. Impressed is not a word I'd use for this.

Because I think that using I'm religious but not in terms of politics is a weird idea of religion, and that this seems honest of her when she could have fudged it. 

[ProfessorDavey]

I am old enough to remember when the SNP and Sturgeon's views on repealing Clause 28 were influenced by Brian Soutar's cash.

I imagine Souter will be back bankrolling the SNP if Forbes becomes leader.

[Nearly Sane]

I imagine Souter will be back bankrolling the SNP if Forbes becomes leader.

That's some imagination you have.

[ProfessorDavey]

That's some imagination you have.

Not really - don't forget that her anti abortion comments were made at an event he had organised. Hardly rocket science to think that he might be back as a major SNP donor if she was leader.

[ProfessorDavey]

See below on Forbes statement on same sex marriage

"Marriage being between a man and a woman. That is what I practise".

What on earth does that mean by that is what I practise? - she's heterosexual so of course the practise of her marriage is between a man and a woman. Does she mean, that is what I believe but doesn't feel she can quite say that?

[Nearly Sane]

"Marriage being between a man and a woman. That is what I practise".

What on earth does that mean by that is what I practise? - she's heterosexual so of course the practise of her marriage is between a man and a woman. Does she mean, that is what I believe but doesn't feel she can quite say that?

Practise as in practise religion. Infelicitious phrasing  but perfectly understandable

[ProfessorDavey]

Practise as in practise religion. Infelicitious phrasing  but perfectly understandable

Sounds rather like weasel words to my mind to try to avoid saying that this is what she believes which surely is the actual case.

[Nearly Sane]

Sounds rather like weasel words to my mind to try to avoid saying that this is what she believes which surely is the actual case.

I think stating that she would have voted against same sex marriage is exactly not weasel words.

[Nearly Sane]

I think the question is whether Forbes stays in the race.

[jeremyp]

Sounds rather like weasel words to my mind to try to avoid saying that this is what she believes which surely is the actual case.

The statement you quoted leaves me in no doubt as to the view of the person who said it. She is against same sex marriage.

On a slightly different point: are we surprised that there is a wide variety of views within the SNP? It originated as a single issue party and is therefore likely to have members with a large diversity of opinions on other topics. I'm quite surprised it isn't in danger of having a schism.

[ProfessorDavey]

Talk about doubling down

https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1628009155708571649?s=20

[Nearly Sane]

Talk about doubling down

https://twitter.com/paulhutcheon/status/1628009155708571649?s=20

Certainly no 'weasel words'.

[Nearly Sane]

The statement you quoted leaves me in no doubt as to the view of the person who said it. She is against same sex marriage.

On a slightly different point: are we surprised that there is a wide variety of views within the SNP? It originated as a single issue party and is therefore likely to have members with a large diversity of opinions on other topics. I'm quite surprised it isn't in danger of having a schism.

Already had one with Alba.