Religion and the fear of death.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Interesting article in the Spectator.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/belief-in-god-doesnt-come-from-a-fear-of-death/

[Sebastian Toe]

Interesting article in the Spectator.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/belief-in-god-doesnt-come-from-a-fear-of-death/

.....it would be nice if religionists attended a little more carefully to the way that non-belief actually works before publishing their fashionable simplifications.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

.....it would be nice if religionists attended a little more carefully to the way that non-belief actually works before publishing their fashionable simplifications.

How’s your chance to explain how non belief works.....will Toe take it? Not holding my breath.

[Sebastian Toe]

How’s your chance to explain how non belief works.....will Toe take it? Not holding my breath.

Some people don't believe. They live their lives. It works. The end

[jeremyp]

Interesting article in the Spectator.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/belief-in-god-doesnt-come-from-a-fear-of-death/

It seems to be saying that people believe in God, not because of a fear of death but because of a fear of life.

We have found that the secular orthodoxy is simply too weak to get us through the night. I mean the dark night of despair. Ah, so you need religion as a crutch, says the humanist – whether the fear is of death or despair. Well yes, he is right, more or less, and we should admit it

Really? Are you in agreement with him?

[Gordon]

Reads to me like a theist indulging in a spot of rationalisation and ending with a brazen Courtier's Reply.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Some people don't believe. They live their lives. It works. The end

What then is ''a life that worked''

[Sebastian Toe]

What then is ''a life that worked''

It's the bit in-between being born and death.
Life
If you are alive then it's working.
It stops working when you die.
No further explanation required.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

It's the bit in-between being born and death.
Life
If you are alive then it's working.
It stops working when you die.
No further explanation required.

So there are no lives that don't work which renders your use of the phrase ''lives that work'' a bit peculiar

[Sebastian Toe]

So there are no lives that don't work which renders your use of the phrase ''lives that work'' a bit peculiar

Examples of lives that don't work?
I'm assuming that you had something in mind when you wrote that?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Examples of lives that don't work?
I'm assuming that you had something in mind when you wrote that?

Don't chuck it back on me  You suggested atheism produces lives that work and then wrote something to suggest that a life that works is a tautology

If all lives ''work'' then, what is the specific virtue of an atheist life?

[Sebastian Toe]

Don't chuck it back on me  You suggested atheism produces lives that work and then wrote something to suggest that a life that works is a tautology

If all lives ''work'' then, what is the specific virtue of an atheist life?

You introduced virtue, what do you mean by that?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You introduced virtue, what do you mean by that?

No I think you introduced the atheists virtue aka moral reason for holding to anything namely that it ''works''

[Sebastian Toe]

No I think you introduced the atheists virtue aka moral reason for holding to anything namely that it ''works''

Ah, I see where you went wrong.
"Works" does not attach virtue or morals to it unless you really really want to shoehorn those in.
I didn't, you did.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Ah, I see where you went wrong.
"Works" does not attach virtue or morals to it unless you really really want to shoehorn those in.
I didn't, you did.

There can be intellectual as well as moral virtue So far you've failed to sell both as far as a lifelong commitment to an atheist life is concerned

[Sebastian Toe]

There can be intellectual as well as moral virtue So far you've failed to sell both as far as a lifelong commitment to an atheist life is concerned

I didn't realise that I was selling anything.

If you want to go down that route then maybe think on how well you ( and Alan) have managed to sell your brands of religion.
My take on that is that neither of you will be getting an annual bonus paid.
In fact you might even consider looking for another job more suited to your individual talents?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I didn't realise that I was selling anything.

If you want to go down that route then maybe think on how well you ( and Alan) have managed to sell your brands of religion.
My take on that is that neither of you will be getting an annual bonus paid.
In fact you might even consider looking for another job more suited to your individual talents?

You are a public evangelical atheist are you not?
I'm not sure you would be a Christian if you were swayed intellectually by any of our arguments. You would need to be convicted by the holy spirit and accept His diagnosis.

It seems to me that atheism is more by way of a purely intellectual position.
Some claim agnosticism with a commitment to atheism.

[Sebastian Toe]

You are a public evangelical atheist are you not?

Nope.

[Sebastian Toe]

I'm not sure you would be a Christian if you were swayed intellectually by any of our arguments.

That is correct.
I would be a simpleton if I was swayed by those.

[Sebastian Toe]

. You would need to be convicted by the holy spirit and accept His diagnosis.

Maybe you or especially Alan could pray that the HS stops Seb-dodging?

[Sebastian Toe]

It seems to me that atheism is more by way of a purely intellectual position.
Some claim agnosticism with a commitment to atheism.

Good for you.

I'm sure that some do.