Author Topic: US Presidential Election 2024  (Read 34985 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #475 on: September 14, 2024, 12:28:20 AM »

SteveH

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #476 on: September 14, 2024, 08:45:10 AM »
He sounds more like Hitler every day.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #477 on: September 15, 2024, 10:43:41 AM »
I'm still bemused that this is her first solo interview since she effectively became the candidate.


https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/kamala-harris-just-gave-her-first-solo-interview-as-the-presidential-nominee-here-s-what-we-learned/ar-AA1qAqSf

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #478 on: September 15, 2024, 01:04:40 PM »
As John Laurie would have said “We’re doomed, doomed I tell you.

Roses

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #479 on: September 16, 2024, 11:57:14 AM »
Trump's greatest loves are himself and money. >:(
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #480 on: September 17, 2024, 11:31:11 AM »
Scientific American comes out in favour of Harris, as it did for Biden four years ago. The only times it has endorsed a candidate for President. I feel this is more about their change than anything else.


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/vote-for-kamala-harris-to-support-science-health-and-the-environment/

Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #481 on: September 17, 2024, 09:03:23 PM »
This is a real tweet from Trump. It's like he's doing a mad local car advert not standing for President.

https://x.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1836100511960818044
« Last Edit: September 17, 2024, 09:44:34 PM by Nearly Sane »

Christine

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #482 on: September 18, 2024, 09:47:59 AM »
I listened to two interviews with Kamala Harris this morning. I wish I believed in a God who could help us.

Maeght

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #483 on: September 18, 2024, 11:20:07 AM »
I listened to two interviews with Kamala Harris this morning. I wish I believed in a God who could help us.

Why?

Christine

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #484 on: September 19, 2024, 08:00:41 AM »
Why?

Hi Maeght,

Because I think the ‘western’ liberal, democratic, secular world is in deep trouble. I value freedom of speech and association, the foundation on which liberal principles and all our other civilised freedoms rest, and which are always under threat. I value truth and want to keep a grip on reality, as far as it’s knowable. I value security and material comfort a little less, but highly.

I don’t think Harris has the intellectual or moral capacity to lead the Western world or defend the things I value. She failed to articulate any detailed policy or principle, or to answer a straight question straightforwardly, over the hour or so I endured. The way she nods patronisingly and earnestly at the interviewer, like a primary school teacher encouraging a child reciting the alphabet, pretending she’s saying something worth listening to, while she recites vacuous sound bites, and whinges. She complained about the state of the US economy and society as if she hadn’t been in office for the last 3 years and Democrats for 11 of the last 15. She complained about Roe v Wade. What exactly stopped Clinton or Obama from codifying abortion rights during their 16 years in power? Her comments on Israel / Gaza were… meaningless.

And the alternative is Trump.

The threats to my freedoms are currently coming from people who label themselves left wing and progressive. I’ve had my freedoms of speech and peaceful association impinged upon on several occasions over the last 3 years, and the "progressive" "inclusive" mob trying to silence me and run me off the public streets were enabled and facilitated by agents of the state. The police did not apply the law reasonably or fairly. They did not protect me. I saw it with my own eyes. They broke their social contract with me.

I don’t care what labels are adopted or assigned anymore. Someone looking me in the eye and telling me they believe the equivalent of 2+2=5 is not to be trusted whether they truly believe the lie or not. They’re either stupid or dishonest, unfit to make decisions on my behalf.

Empires come and go. It’s been my privilege to live in an affluent, relatively peaceful and relatively free society for most of my life, unlike the vast majority of people.

I read The Handmaid’s tale when I was 18 and knew then that every one of the horrors described by Atwood was being perpetrated on women somewhere in the world. I knew how lucky I was to have been born here and then. I’m seeing now, close up, exactly how fragile my security and freedom to tell the truth is.

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." Douglas Adams

The lessons in how to exploit and manipulate people seem to have been well learned by some.

John Stuart Mill had it right:

“If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”

The contemporary "left" are not left at all. If I join my sisters and brothers on the barricades, it's highly unlikely it'll be on the same side as Kamala Harris (or Keir Starmer, with his huge majority, delivered by a third of the less than two-thirds of the electorate that bothered to vote. That's not democracy.)




 

SteveH

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #485 on: September 19, 2024, 09:24:16 AM »
Can't say I'm hugely impressed by Harris myself, t when the alternative is Trump, who to support is a bit of a no-brainer.
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Christine

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #486 on: September 19, 2024, 09:50:32 AM »
Can't say I'm hugely impressed by Harris myself, t when the alternative is Trump, who to support is a bit of a no-brainer.

I've got a brain and if I was able to, I'd vote for Trump, poor alternative that he is. People who disagree with you aren't necessarily stupid.

In my opinion rights and freedoms are currently more at risk from self-styled leftists than those labelled 'right wing' by them. Threatening to close down sources of information you don't like and prosecute publishers of opinions you disagree with sounds pretty right wing to me. I don't need Kamala or Keir to tell me what to believe. I can read and I can reason.

Maeght

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #487 on: September 19, 2024, 09:51:06 AM »
Hi Maeght,

Because I think the ‘western’ liberal, democratic, secular world is in deep trouble. I value freedom of speech and association, the foundation on which liberal principles and all our other civilised freedoms rest, and which are always under threat. I value truth and want to keep a grip on reality, as far as it’s knowable. I value security and material comfort a little less, but highly.

I don’t think Harris has the intellectual or moral capacity to lead the Western world or defend the things I value. She failed to articulate any detailed policy or principle, or to answer a straight question straightforwardly, over the hour or so I endured. The way she nods patronisingly and earnestly at the interviewer, like a primary school teacher encouraging a child reciting the alphabet, pretending she’s saying something worth listening to, while she recites vacuous sound bites, and whinges. She complained about the state of the US economy and society as if she hadn’t been in office for the last 3 years and Democrats for 11 of the last 15. She complained about Roe v Wade. What exactly stopped Clinton or Obama from codifying abortion rights during their 16 years in power? Her comments on Israel / Gaza were… meaningless.

And the alternative is Trump.

The threats to my freedoms are currently coming from people who label themselves left wing and progressive. I’ve had my freedoms of speech and peaceful association impinged upon on several occasions over the last 3 years, and the "progressive" "inclusive" mob trying to silence me and run me off the public streets were enabled and facilitated by agents of the state. The police did not apply the law reasonably or fairly. They did not protect me. I saw it with my own eyes. They broke their social contract with me.

I don’t care what labels are adopted or assigned anymore. Someone looking me in the eye and telling me they believe the equivalent of 2+2=5 is not to be trusted whether they truly believe the lie or not. They’re either stupid or dishonest, unfit to make decisions on my behalf.

Empires come and go. It’s been my privilege to live in an affluent, relatively peaceful and relatively free society for most of my life, unlike the vast majority of people.

I read The Handmaid’s tale when I was 18 and knew then that every one of the horrors described by Atwood was being perpetrated on women somewhere in the world. I knew how lucky I was to have been born here and then. I’m seeing now, close up, exactly how fragile my security and freedom to tell the truth is.

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so." Douglas Adams

The lessons in how to exploit and manipulate people seem to have been well learned by some.

John Stuart Mill had it right:

“If all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”

The contemporary "left" are not left at all. If I join my sisters and brothers on the barricades, it's highly unlikely it'll be on the same side as Kamala Harris (or Keir Starmer, with his huge majority, delivered by a third of the less than two-thirds of the electorate that bothered to vote. That's not democracy.)

Thanks for that. I hadn't seen her interview so didn't know what had prompted your comment. I can understand your position and am not convinced by Harris (or Starmer) either but see Trump as the greater concern at the moment - much like the Tories were the greater concern to me here so saw/see Starmer as the better option. We are in troubling times for sure but I hope we will come out of them with better governments and societies but am not certain this will be what happens. Maybe we have lived through a golden age and things will never be the same as before, so we will just have to do the best we can and choose the least bad option. Hope not but ......

Christine

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #488 on: September 19, 2024, 09:56:52 AM »
Thanks for that. I hadn't seen her interview so didn't know what had prompted your comment. I can understand your position and am not convinced by Harris (or Starmer) either but see Trump as the greater concern at the moment - much like the Tories were the greater concern to me here so saw/see Starmer as the better option. We are in troubling times for sure but I hope we will come out of them with better governments and societies but am not certain this will be what happens. Maybe we have lived through a golden age and things will never be the same as before, so we will just have to do the best we can and choose the least bad option. Hope not but ......

Thank you. I feel very much the same way, but as I say, I think the greater threat comes from the so-called 'left'. Horrified by the choices we are being presented with. I don't think any major (or many minor, for that matter) political parties are selecting candidates for their intelligence or integrity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #489 on: September 19, 2024, 10:05:00 AM »
I've got a brain and if I was able to, I'd vote for Trump, poor alternative that he is. People who disagree with you aren't necessarily stupid.

In my opinion rights and freedoms are currently more at risk from self-styled leftists than those labelled 'right wing' by them. Threatening to close down sources of information you don't like and prosecute publishers of opinions you disagree with sounds pretty right wing to me. I don't need Kamala or Keir to tell me what to believe. I can read and I can reason.
I could never vote for Trump because I think he's dangerous, and much more so than in 2016.

The Democrats are a mess. I can't get any grip on Harris. The lack of interviews since she became the candidate scares me as it feels like something is being hidden. I suspect I might vote Harris as the least bad option but a spoilt paper which are increasingly more common for me at elections might be what happens but the essentially binary nature of the contest means that would be less likely.

Roses

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #490 on: September 19, 2024, 10:51:13 AM »
Trump is an evil so and so who would have got on well with Hitler. How anyone could even consider voting for that piece of the proverbial is either not right in the head or a far right extremist.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #491 on: September 19, 2024, 11:03:54 AM »
Thank you. I feel very much the same way, but as I say, I think the greater threat comes from the so-called 'left'. Horrified by the choices we are being presented with. I don't think any major (or many minor, for that matter) political parties are selecting candidates for their intelligence or integrity.
I don't there are any candidates of the 'left' in the US election. Certainly not in the manner that we might consider to be 'left' in the UK.

Trump is of the populist right and the Democrats are pretty centre-right (at best centre) if we use the UK political spectrum.

Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #492 on: September 19, 2024, 11:11:55 AM »
Trump is an evil so and so who would have got on well with Hitler. How anyone could even consider voting for that piece of the proverbial is either not right in the head or a far right extremist.
He's got nearly 50% of the votes in the past 2 elections so you think they are all either mad or far right. I know several people who voted for him who are perfectly sane and would be seen on the left of the Tory Party.



jeremyp

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #493 on: September 19, 2024, 11:21:34 AM »
I've got a brain and if I was able to, I'd vote for Trump, poor alternative that he is. People who disagree with you aren't necessarily stupid.

In my opinion rights and freedoms are currently more at risk from self-styled leftists than those labelled 'right wing' by them. Threatening to close down sources of information you don't like and prosecute publishers of opinions you disagree with sounds pretty right wing to me. I don't need Kamala or Keir to tell me what to believe. I can read and I can reason.
Tr*mp is far more dangerous to you and to democracy than Harris. It really is laughable that anybody would seriously consider that she is the worst of the two of them.
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SteveH

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #494 on: September 19, 2024, 11:24:37 AM »
I've got a brain and if I was able to, I'd vote for Trump, poor alternative that he is.

Why vote for either?
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SteveH

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #495 on: September 19, 2024, 11:41:58 AM »
Question for anyone who knows: is it possible to vote for the presidential candidate from one party and the vp candidate from the other party, eg Harris and Vance, or indeed vote for one but abstain on the other?
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #496 on: September 19, 2024, 11:46:17 AM »
Question for anyone who knows: is it possible to vote for the presidential candidate from one party and the vp candidate from the other party, eg Harris and Vance, or indeed vote for one but abstain on the other?
No, it's a single ticket vote. VOGOF

Christine

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #497 on: September 19, 2024, 12:08:17 PM »
Tr*mp is far more dangerous to you and to democracy than Harris. It really is laughable that anybody would seriously consider that she is the worst of the two of them.

Thanks for your unsupported opinion, Jeremy.

We are on the brink of war. That's dangerous. The Democrats have been in power in the US for the last 3.5 years.

I don't think Trump is dangerous, though I don't like him. I do like Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Jr and Elon Musk. Since realising how easily my previously trusted "progressive" sources of information lie, I've started listening to people I was told by them were well beyond the political pale; were unhinged conspiracy theorists. Turns out, many of them are reasonable people with intelligent and interesting things to say, and evidence to support their points of view.

Censorship of opinions you don't like and information you consider "misleading" is the hallmark of authoritarianism throughout history. If you can't beat your political opponents with arguments, you've lost, it's just a question of how long it takes for enough people to see through the charade and how many people have to suffer while history works itself out.

I don't think politicians can be trusted to decide what is and isn't true. Freedom of speech and association are the most important freedoms we have, from which all else flows. That's why I think Harris is more dangerous than Trump.

 




Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #498 on: September 19, 2024, 12:24:31 PM »
Thanks for your unsupported opinion, Jeremy.

We are on the brink of war. That's dangerous. The Democrats have been in power in the US for the last 3.5 years.

I don't think Trump is dangerous, though I don't like him. I do like Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Jr and Elon Musk. Since realising how easily my previously trusted "progressive" sources of information lie, I've started listening to people I was told by them were well beyond the political pale; were unhinged conspiracy theorists. Turns out, many of them are reasonable people with intelligent and interesting things to say, and evidence to support their points of view.

Censorship of opinions you don't like and information you consider "misleading" is the hallmark of authoritarianism throughout history. If you can't beat your political opponents with arguments, you've lost, it's just a question of how long it takes for enough people to see through the charade and how many people have to suffer while history works itself out.

I don't think politicians can be trusted to decide what is and isn't true. Freedom of speech and association are the most important freedoms we have, from which all else flows. That's why I think Harris is more dangerous than Trump.
We've never had freedom of speech. Are you saying that it's OK for Abu Hamza to preach for murder?

Christine

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #499 on: September 19, 2024, 12:39:44 PM »
We've never had freedom of speech. Are you saying that it's OK for Abu Hamza to preach for murder?

Hi Nearly,

No. I don't think freedom of speech includes incitement to violence or threats to individuals. That's already illegal, here and, as far as I know, in the US.

My allies in the fight for women's rights have a slogan: Let Them Speak. We don't want to silence our opponents, because unless you know what they think and can question it, you can't change minds. Bad arguments need to be exposed and countered (as has been happening for years on the 'Searching for God' thread). People don't stop thinking and believing things you don't agree with, or think are false, because you stop them from talking about it.