Author Topic: US Presidential Election 2024  (Read 34717 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #700 on: November 06, 2024, 05:36:57 PM »
Why not call a moron a moron? Or is it a never tell a crazy person they're crazy thing?
There will be 80 million or more people who will have voted for Trump. If you're approach is to call them morons or fascists, then all that says is telling them they are unimportant.

Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #701 on: November 06, 2024, 05:47:37 PM »
It would appear that the American people have used their God given gift of free will to choose the lesser of two evils.
So the President elect is evil.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2024, 05:50:41 PM by Nearly Sane »

ad_orientem

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #702 on: November 06, 2024, 06:00:20 PM »
There will be 80 million or more people who will have voted for Trump. If you're approach is to call them morons or fascists, then all that says is telling them they are unimportant.

But they are morons and/or fascists.
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Aruntraveller

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #703 on: November 06, 2024, 06:16:18 PM »
foetus, embryo, baby, child, teenager, adult ......
They are all man made labels used to describe different stages of human LIFE

Yes - I use twat for that as well.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #704 on: November 06, 2024, 06:26:15 PM »
But they are morons and/or fascists.
I knew a number who are neither.

Roses

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #705 on: November 07, 2024, 09:13:59 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cev90d7wkk0o

I doubt some of his supporters will be happy with no 5 on the list.
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jeremyp

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #706 on: November 07, 2024, 09:20:27 AM »
I saw Schama, and the idea that voting for Trump.is about not caring about democracy is simply wrong. You can think that many are mistaken, that they've been misleading but this blanket approach to those voters is damaging to the process.
Everybody saw what happened on Jan 6th 2021. Voting for Tr*mp is not caring about democracy. It's over in the USA.
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jeremyp

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #707 on: November 07, 2024, 09:21:19 AM »
What? By electing a fraudster, rapist, dictator admirer and a narcissist?

You forgot "convicted felon" and "Putin puppet".
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #708 on: November 07, 2024, 09:27:18 AM »
The voters decided that Trump fucked up Bigly by 2020 so we can’t be looking at an intellectual thing here.
May I suggest moral exhaustion.
A lot of people must imagine that he’ll be gone in 2028 or they’ll have the luxury to dismiss him.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #709 on: November 07, 2024, 09:44:58 AM »
It would appear that the American people have used their God given gift of free will to choose the lesser of two evils.
Although you can bet on an abortion service being available for ranking politicians, placements and bishops.

Gordon

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #710 on: November 07, 2024, 09:48:24 AM »
Spoke to a friend in the US last night - he said that the support for Trump, in spite of his known faults, is largely based on the feeling that he will handle the economy better than would the Democrats. It's all about $$$$$$ for some Americans.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #711 on: November 07, 2024, 09:55:13 AM »
Spoke to a friend in the US last night - he said that the support for Trump, in spite of his known faults, is largely based on the feeling that he will handle the economy better than would the Democrats. It's all about $$$$$$ for some Americans.
Put a minus in front of the dollar signs and that is what they are likely to end up with.

SteveH

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #712 on: November 07, 2024, 10:02:30 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cev90d7wkk0o

I doubt some of his supporters will be happy with no 5 on the list.
it's no. 3 that most worries me; climate change affects all of us, and needs global co-operation to combat it.
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jeremyp

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #713 on: November 07, 2024, 10:11:42 AM »
Spoke to a friend in the US last night - he said that the support for Trump, in spite of his known faults, is largely based on the feeling that he will handle the economy better than would the Democrats. It's all about $$$$$$ for some Americans.

And it's blatantly false. Republicans tend to crash the economy leaving it for Democrats to sort it out.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #714 on: November 07, 2024, 10:19:43 AM »
And it's blatantly false. Republicans tend to crash the economy leaving it for Democrats to sort it out.
It may be false in the sense that he won't protect the economy, but that wasn't Gordon's point. He said that support for Trump was based on the feeling that he would handle the economy better than the democrats. It is about perception rather than reality - and the reality is often based on situations way beyond the control of one administration in one country.

Across the world many incumbent governments (regardless of their economic political positions) are being hit because of the economy, inflation etc etc - but the fact that every country (well pretty well every country) has been hit by inflation post-COVID and post Ukraine etc suggests that these aren't factors influenced by individual government decisions. But the electorates tend not to notice or care - 'our cost of living is through the roof so we need to kick out the government'.

It is likely (let's hope) that global events will stabilise over the next few years (regardless of the actions on individual governments). If so both Trump and Starmer will be able to push the narrative that the country/economy was broken when we came to power and look at it now in 2028/9 - we fixed it.

jeremyp

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #715 on: November 07, 2024, 10:21:24 AM »
It may be false in the sense that he won't protect the economy, but that wasn't Gordon's point. He said that support for Trump was based on the feeling that he would handle the economy better than the democrats. It is about perception rather than reality - and the reality is often based on situations way beyond the control of one administration in one country.
Yes. Your point?
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #716 on: November 07, 2024, 10:49:05 AM »
Yes. Your point?
That people tend to vote on perception rather than reality. And that 'reality', if that means responsibility, is sometimes quite hard to pin down in political terms.

Was Brown responsible for the 2007/8 global financial crash - nope. Did he make efforts to protect the economy from it - yes. Did the electorate punish him because the economy was in poor shape in 2010 - yup.

Were Johnson/Truss/Sunak responsible for COVID/Ukraine - nope. Did he make efforts to protect the economy from them - yes. Did the electorate punish him because the economy was in poor shape in 2024 - yup.

Events, dear boy.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #717 on: November 07, 2024, 12:29:08 PM »
That people tend to vote on perception rather than reality. And that 'reality', if that means responsibility, is sometimes quite hard to pin down in political terms.

Was Brown responsible for the 2007/8 global financial crash - nope. Did he make efforts to protect the economy from it - yes. Did the electorate punish him because the economy was in poor shape in 2010 - yup.

Were Johnson/Truss/Sunak responsible for COVID/Ukraine - nope. Did he make efforts to protect the economy from them - yes. Did the electorate punish him because the economy was in poor shape in 2024 - yup.

Events, dear boy.
And yet some people were doing fantastically well throughout the Tory years as was the aim of austerity and brexit with the prospect of that being reinforced under successive Tory Governments and the Tory expectation of working harder for less in general and working less for more for the few.

ProfessorDavey

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #718 on: November 07, 2024, 01:14:28 PM »
And yet some people were doing fantastically well throughout the Tory years as was the aim of austerity and brexit with the prospect of that being reinforced under successive Tory Governments and the Tory expectation of working harder for less in general and working less for more for the few.
A few did, most didn't. I think the 2010-2024 period was just about the first on record when people's real-terms income fell (i.e. adjusted for inflation) from the beginning to the end of the government. And that was before taking account of tax burden.

And a few are unlikely to be able to tip the balance of an election, the many can.

Roses

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #719 on: November 07, 2024, 02:09:09 PM »
it's no. 3 that most worries me; climate change affects all of us, and needs global co-operation to combat it.

That worries me too. :o
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Roses

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #720 on: November 07, 2024, 02:39:56 PM »
foetus, embryo, baby, child, teenager, adult ......
They are all man made labels used to describe different stages of human LIFE

Those who think as you do in the US and voted for Trump, will not be happy with his decision to allow women to have abortions, having previously said he would ban them!
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Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #721 on: November 07, 2024, 04:35:37 PM »
And it's blatantly false. Republicans tend to crash the economy leaving it for Democrats to sort it out.
Since all of it is opinion, even if you think your opinion is better informed, calling it blatantly false, and using the word ten makes your point entirely specious, since your first sentence is a claim of fact. There are many people in the US who are worse off than they were in 2020, and you might try and argue that overall the economy is better but if you are struggling to pay basics that isn't very powerful.

Nearly Sane

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #722 on: November 07, 2024, 04:46:39 PM »
Those who think as you do in the US and voted for Trump, will not be happy with his decision to allow women to have abortions, having previously said he would ban them!
His decision is not that he's saying that women can have abortions but that it is a decision for states rather than the federal govt.

SteveH

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #723 on: November 07, 2024, 09:28:26 PM »
"Of the lesser of two evils, he was the worst" - young British woman talking nonsense when interviewed by the BBC about Trump's win.
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SteveH

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Re: US Presidential Election 2024
« Reply #724 on: November 08, 2024, 11:16:34 AM »
Why did the polls get it so wrong? They had the race as tight as a gnat's arse right up to the end, but Trump won comfortably, taking all seven swing states. Any ideas --"shy Republicans", maybe, like our shy Tories?
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.