Author Topic: Johnson resigning!  (Read 2268 times)

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64783
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2023, 09:27:03 AM »
Every word highlighting the fact that the British political system is based on tribalism and tribal values not any political philosophy.
This can only be changed by changing our voting system. First past the postencourages tribal loyalty.

My abiding memory of the character of Alexander "Boris" Johnson was of an impromptu interview by a tv journalist which concerned people rough sleeoing in shop doorways. The journalist asked Johnson what he was going to do about this problem - showing him an appropriate photo on his mobile phone. Johnson snatched the phone out of the journalist's hand, put it in his own pocket and sharply told him to go away.
Not sure it's in any sense particular to the Britosh system. The US, in particular, seems riven by such tribalism. It may be that they were always like this, and certainly, I think the past had a lot of elements of it. That said, the existence of social media seems to have exacerbated it. The reactions I saw on social media to the arrest of Nicola Sturgeon yesterday seemed affected by it, for example.

I think though that Johnson more so than any other leader that I can think of in the UK is merely there out of ambition.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2023, 09:41:17 AM by Nearly Sane »

SteveH

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10548
  • God? She's black.
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2023, 09:52:00 AM »
Every word highlighting the fact that the British political system is based on tribalism and tribal values not any political philosophy.
This can only be changed by changing our voting system. First past the post encourages tribal loyalty.
Change it to what, though? Everyone answers "proportional representation", as though there is only one pr system, but there are many, and some of them would be even worse than simple majority/first past the post. I favour single transferable vote, with alternative vote as second-best. AV is in fact a special case od STV, applied to single-member constituencies.
I once tried using "chicken" as a password, but was told it must contain a capital so I tried "chickenkiev"
On another occasion, I tried "beefstew", but was told it wasn't stroganoff.

Harrowby Hall

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5041
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2023, 10:27:58 AM »
Not sure it's in any sense particular to the Britosh system.
My suspicion is that tribalism is a consequence of FPTP and will be apparent wherever this simplistic voting system exists.


Change it to what, though? 
Yes - single transferable vote.
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32706
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2023, 10:53:39 AM »
Not sure it's in any sense particular to the Britosh system. The US, in particular, seems riven by such tribalism. It may be that they were always like this, and certainly, I think the past had a lot of elements of it. That said, the existence of social media seems to have exacerbated it. The reactions I saw on social media to the arrest of Nicola Sturgeon yesterday seemed affected by it, for example.

I think though that Johnson more so than any other leader that I can think of in the UK is merely there out of ambition.
In the past, the US system was not tribal. You frequently got bipartisan cooperation. However, that has changed and it’s given them a lot of trouble. Their political system cannot cope with tribalism. The people who wrote their constitution assumed, wrongly, that the politicians would act reasonably and in the best interests of the USA.

Our political system has always been tribal and it has evolved to deal with that. We have safeguards in important places such as an independent electoral commission and a neutral Supreme Court. However, much of our system is based on conventions rather than explicit laws and so it can only deal with tribal politics as long as all the tribes’ members agree to play by the rules.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64783
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #29 on: June 13, 2023, 07:45:17 PM »
Sorry, 4 by elections

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-61051163
So it's looking like Adams and Johnson's by elections will either be the 13th or 20th of July which means they will done before the recall petition on Ferrier's deadline.

Dorries hasn't sent in letter of resignation yet.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64783
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2023, 12:04:31 AM »

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64783

SqueakyVoice

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2454
  • Life. Don't talk to me about life.
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2023, 06:08:19 PM »
The Just Stop Oil group were going to change their name to the Just Stop Johnson campaign.

Then they realised that even if they used superglue it wouldn't stick to him.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/16/boris-johnson-fresh-questions-as-daily-mail-signs-ex-pm-as-columnist
"Let us think the unthinkable, let us do the undoable, let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all" - D Adams

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64783
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2023, 02:14:51 PM »
The failure of Douglas Ross


https://archive.vn/TgNuL

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64783
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2023, 05:07:59 PM »

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11179
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2023, 09:58:25 PM »
And the oddity of Charlotte Owen

https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2023/06/14/charlotte-owen/

I'm sure I read rumours somewhere about her being related in some way   :o
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

jeremyp

  • Admin Support
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32706
  • Blurb
    • Sincere Flattery: A blog about computing
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2023, 08:09:13 AM »
I'm sure I read rumours somewhere about her being related in some way   :o

She’s not. It’s all based on the coincidence that her second name is the same as the second name of one of BJ’s former sexual partners.
This post and all of JeremyP's posts words certified 100% divinely inspired* -- signed God.
*Platinum infallibility package, terms and conditions may apply

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64783
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2023, 12:56:37 PM »

Walt Zingmatilder

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33285
Mass moral dilemma at Westminster
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2023, 05:42:37 PM »
Abstain, vote for or vote against the parliamentary report. Party or parliament. Bravery or cowardice. Moral dilemma on a mass scale.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64783

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64783
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2023, 10:29:20 PM »
15 Tory Ministers voted for report

Aruntraveller

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11179
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #41 on: June 20, 2023, 05:30:05 AM »
15 Tory Ministers voted for report

It was more than this.

118 according to The Torygraph. I only took an interest becaue I know my MP Peter Bottomley voted for it and he wasn't on the list.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 64783
Re: Johnson resigning!
« Reply #42 on: June 20, 2023, 06:05:18 AM »
It was more than this.

118 according to The Torygraph. I only took an interest becaue I know my MP Peter Bottomley voted for it and he wasn't on the list.

Ministers not just MPs