Author Topic: Football 2023 - 2024  (Read 21652 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #150 on: October 30, 2023, 02:39:22 AM »
Lyon manager 'seriously injured' as team bus attacked in Marseille.

Not sure what should happen here.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67258093
« Last Edit: October 30, 2023, 03:07:42 AM by Nearly Sane »

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #151 on: October 30, 2023, 08:26:33 AM »
People should be arrested and sent to prison for serious assault and criminal damage.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #152 on: October 30, 2023, 08:40:03 AM »
People should be arrested and sent to prison for serious assault and criminal damage.
Agree but in terms of the club?

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #153 on: October 30, 2023, 08:44:13 AM »
Agree but in terms of the club?

Do you mean Lyon or Marseille? I guess there is an argument that Marseille should get a sanction because their fans have "brought them in to disrepute" plus harmed Lyon's potential future performances.

But I do have a problem with punishing clubs for the actions of a few fans they don't have control over.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #154 on: October 30, 2023, 09:26:40 AM »
Do you mean Lyon or Marseille? I guess there is an argument that Marseille should get a sanction because their fans have "brought them in to disrepute" plus harmed Lyon's potential future performances.

But I do have a problem with punishing clubs for the actions of a few fans they don't have control over.
Marseille. And while clubs don't have complete conyrol over fans there is obviously some control. I don't think the idea of never taking action against a club works.

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #155 on: October 30, 2023, 09:38:32 AM »
while clubs don't have complete conyrol over fans there is obviously some control.
How much control did the club have over these thugs?

Quote
I don't think the idea of never taking action against a club works.

What action should be taken against this club that would be fair to everybody?


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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #156 on: October 30, 2023, 10:12:12 AM »
How much control did the club have over these thugs?

What action should be taken against this club that would be fair to everybody?
Surely the question of control is dependent on what 'these things' are. If, for example, someone gets injured in the stadium because of a large firework that they didn't have sufficient staff on to ensure was kept out?

As to what is 'fair to everybody', I'd be at a loss making a suggestion that I thought passed that criterion for pretty much anything. I opened the discussion on what should be done by saying I wasn't sure.

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #157 on: October 30, 2023, 10:38:18 AM »
Surely the question of control is dependent on what 'these things' are.
"these things"? I wrote "these thugs" meaning the people that did the assault on the bus.

Quote
If, for example, someone gets injured in the stadium because of a large firework that they didn't have sufficient staff on to ensure was kept out?
Yes, I agree that would be on the club.

Quote
As to what is 'fair to everybody', I'd be at a loss making a suggestion that I thought passed that criterion for pretty much anything. I opened the discussion on what should be done by saying I wasn't sure.

Unless it can be shown that the club was negligent in some way, the responsibility for this assault is on the people who did it. Punishing the club, would be punishing people who are innocent of wrong doing. For example, ordering the rescheduled match to be played behind closed doors punishes fans who were not involved. Docking points punishes fans and the club even though they were not involved. Ideally, you target the punishment at the individuals who did the crime.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2023, 11:05:39 AM by jeremyp »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #158 on: October 30, 2023, 10:47:52 AM »
"these things"? I wrote "these thugs" meaning the people that did the assault on the bus.
Yes, I agree that would be on the club.

Unless it can be shown that the club was negligent in some way, the responsibility for this assault is on the people who did it. Punishing the club, would be punishing people who are innocent of wrong doing. For example, ordering the rescheduled match to be played behind closed punishes fans who were not involved. Docking points punishes fans and the club even though they were not involved. Ideally, you target the punishment at the individuals who did the crime.

Apologies for the misreading 

Part of the idea of 'punishing' the club here, or indeed the fans, is that it encourages better behaviour all round, and it mean it is seen to be being taken seriously by the football authorities. Say there is a full house of 60,000 at a hane and large sections of the home fans are constantly racist chanting. The club bars those it can identify but it's only a minority. Would you say no further action should be taken?

As to the question of collective punishment in sport, if one was absolutely against it, then you wouldn't have sendings off. 

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #159 on: November 02, 2023, 02:54:05 PM »
Ten Hag's coat on the shooglie peg.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67293894

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #160 on: November 02, 2023, 04:08:05 PM »
Ten Hag's coat on the shooglie peg.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67293894

Interesting how fortunes differ. Arsenal also conceded three goals and are out, but nobody is questioning Arteta's position. Mind you, reading the BBC match report, I think he might have decided to throw the game.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #161 on: November 03, 2023, 04:52:00 PM »
Be interesting what might happen if it can be shown that Milan knew.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67313204
« Last Edit: November 03, 2023, 05:08:16 PM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #162 on: November 04, 2023, 09:52:31 AM »

I think Rashford having a planned birthday party is the amongst the smallest issues for Man Utd.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67314370

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #163 on: November 04, 2023, 01:15:07 PM »
I think Rashford having a planned birthday party is the amongst the smallest issues for Man Utd.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67314370

FTA
Quote
[Ten Hag] confirmed Rashford had not been omitted from the starting line-up for Wednesday's EFL Cup fourth-round defeat by Newcastle as a disciplinary measure.

Overly harsh punishment to make him play an EFL Cup fixture.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #164 on: November 06, 2023, 09:50:05 PM »
FTA
Overly harsh punishment to make him play an EFL Cup fixture.
lol

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #165 on: November 06, 2023, 10:25:58 PM »
Quite a match between Spurs and Chelsea.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67258895

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #166 on: November 08, 2023, 08:06:03 PM »
And an extraordinary penalty shoot between Coleraine and Ballymena


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67360598
« Last Edit: November 08, 2023, 08:10:33 PM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #167 on: November 14, 2023, 04:20:00 PM »
81 shots! From old Caledonia, my thoughts are with New Caledonia.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67417235

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #168 on: November 17, 2023, 10:33:50 AM »
Emotional win but I'm still struggling with the idea that they've played 5 matches already in qualifying for the 2026 World Cup.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67447739

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #169 on: November 17, 2023, 01:16:46 PM »
'Everton receive immediate 10-point Premier League deduction' - ooh err...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67448714

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #170 on: November 17, 2023, 05:09:55 PM »
'Everton receive immediate 10-point Premier League deduction' - ooh err...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67448714

Call me a cynic. but it seems to me that, if the Man City case had been dispatched with the same alacrity, they'd already be playing in the Championship.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #171 on: November 17, 2023, 07:03:00 PM »
Call me a cynic. but it seems to me that, if the Man City case had been dispatched with the same alacrity, they'd already be playing in the Championship.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #172 on: November 21, 2023, 02:43:27 PM »
San Marino just can't stop scoring


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67400096

Nearly Sane

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #173 on: November 21, 2023, 06:33:42 PM »
Newcastle to be allowed to loan players from PIF-owned Saudi clubs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67490620

jeremyp

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Re: Football 2023 - 2024
« Reply #174 on: November 22, 2023, 01:16:17 PM »
Newcastle to be allowed to loan players from PIF-owned Saudi clubs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67490620

Obvious FFP loophole is obvious.
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