ULEZ

[SteveH]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/28/ulez-key-to-tackling-unacceptably-high-child-illness-and-death-doctors-say - I should think so too! All these selfish drivers pretending to be concerned about low-income drivers who can't afford to change their car - what a load of gonads! If they can afford to drive in the first place, they can afford a low-emission vehicle.

[Nearly Sane]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/28/ulez-key-to-tackling-unacceptably-high-child-illness-and-death-doctors-say - I should think so too! All these selfish drivers pretending to be concerned about low-income drivers who can't afford to change their car - what a load of gonads! If they can afford to drive in the first place, they can afford a low-emission vehicle.

I know several people who can't

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

My experience is ULEZ meant I had to change a perfectly good 2013 reg new diesel car I bought because the govt were incentivising buying diesel with low car tax because it was better for the environment. (My old 1999 Petrol car had died and couldn’t be revived so had to buy another car in 2013)

Luckily when ULEZ was expanded to my area in 2021, I could afford to trade in my diesel car and buy a used approved 2017 Petrol model that was ULEZ compliant. There are lots of people who can’t afford to change cars as the trade-in value is pretty low on cars that are not ULEZ compliant.

What I wasn’t aware of is that apparently all the electronics on a lot of cars these days (parking sensors, electric seats, mirrors, aircon etc) means if you walk more and drive the car less in order to protect the environment, or if you don’t drive it at all for 3 weeks while on holiday, you end up with a flat battery. The RAC jumpstart it and tell me I have to drive it for a continuous 45 min to 1 hour drive without turning off the engine every day for the next 3 days. RAC also said the manufacturer says I have to drive it once a week for a continuous 1hr drive to keep the battery from getting flat. Apparently short journeys take more out of the battery. During Covid lockdowns and when LTNs were introduced my battery went flat a few times. Electric cars are plugged in at home to get charged overnight so don’t have this issue.

[Aruntraveller]

To me the issue here is the scrappage support scheme which is not generous enough to enable people to make the change necessary to ensure cleaner air.

As to the electronics on a car, this is not something I have noticed. I purchased a new car in 2019 with a lot of the electronic doo-dahs installed and it has been fine despite sitting in the garage for extended periods during lockdowns and only doing short journeys when I went out. Maybe I've just been lucky, or perhaps only certain makes are susceptible to this.

[SteveH]

I know several people who can't

Well, tell them to get a bike!

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

To me the issue here is the scrappage support scheme which is not generous enough to enable people to make the change necessary to ensure cleaner air.

As to the electronics on a car, this is not something I have noticed. I purchased a new car in 2019 with a lot of the electronic doo-dahs installed and it has been fine despite sitting in the garage for extended periods during lockdowns and only doing short journeys when I went out. Maybe I've just been lucky, or perhaps only certain makes are susceptible to this.

Must be my make of car then that is the problem. What make do you have so I know for next time.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Well, tell them to get a bike!

Bikes get stolen round here so not much point buying one - police don’t even investigate.

Plus you can’t carry much on a bike - no transporting suitcases, giving elderly parents a lift, transporting family shopping, taking stuff to the recycling Centre etc

Don’t think bikes are the answer.

[Nearly Sane]

Well, tell them to get a bike!

Not practical for their needs.

[Nearly Sane]

One of the things that I find odd about the implementation of the LEZ in Glasgow is that while London has a daily cost of £12.50, which on very occasional use might work for someone, in Glasgow it starts at £60, and then doubles up to a maximum  of £480.

[ProfessorDavey]

Bikes get stolen round here so not much point buying one - police don’t even investigate.

Plus you can’t carry much on a bike - no transporting suitcases, giving elderly parents a lift, transporting family shopping, taking stuff to the recycling Centre etc

Don’t think bikes are the answer.

Don’t forget that 42% of households in London don’t have a car. While that doesn’t mean they have a bike they are certainly managing all the things you mention without needing to own a car.

[jeremyp]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/28/ulez-key-to-tackling-unacceptably-high-child-illness-and-death-doctors-say - I should think so too! All these selfish drivers pretending to be concerned about low-income drivers who can't afford to change their car - what a load of gonads! If they can afford to drive in the first place, they can afford a low-emission vehicle.

It doesn't have to be that low emission. My 2014 Audi S3 is compliant.

My issues with Bristol's clean air zone have nothing to do with the principle, but the way it has been implemented. You are expected to see and understand the signs when your attention should be given to the road. Then you have to Google the clean air zone, because you are not going to be writing down a URL while you are driving and then you have to pay on line. If you forget any of these, the first you'll know about it is when Bristol Council sends you a letter informing you that you have to pay a fine. It's a naked revenue grab. They should be sending you a reminder letter to pay yhr charge (£9/day) before sending you a fine.

There's also a problem with the area covered by the CAZ. It covers all the main north-south roads, so you can't travel from North Bristol to South Bristol without going through the zone. Bristol gets its £9 but it doesn't help the clean air.

[jeremyp]

Well, tell them to get a bike!

Can you imagine a plumber going to work on a bike?

[jeremyp]

To me the issue here is the scrappage support scheme which is not generous enough to enable people to make the change necessary to ensure cleaner air.

As to the electronics on a car, this is not something I have noticed. I purchased a new car in 2019 with a lot of the electronic doo-dahs installed and it has been fine despite sitting in the garage for extended periods during lockdowns and only doing short journeys when I went out. Maybe I've just been lucky, or perhaps only certain makes are susceptible to this.

We shouldn't be scrapping cars. Building new cars is pretty environmentally unfriendly.

[jeremyp]

Must be my make of car then that is the problem. What make do you have so I know for next time.

You should take your car out for a short spin maybe once a week if possible. All sorts of things can go wrong if you leave it unused for an extended period.

[jeremyp]

One of the things that I find odd about the implementation of the LEZ in Glasgow is that while London has a daily cost of £12.50, which on very occasional use might work for someone, in Glasgow it starts at £60, and then doubles up to a maximum  of £480.

The £12.50 isn't a penalty. Non compliant vehicles can be driven in ULEZ provided they pay a charge, a bit like the congestion charge. Looking at the Glasgow scheme it seems that non compliant vehicles are banned altogether from the LEZ.

Note: my 2014 Audi S3 is also compliant with the Glasgow LEZ.

[Nearly Sane]

The £12.50 isn't a penalty. Non compliant vehicles can be driven in ULEZ provided they pay a charge, a bit like the congestion charge. Looking at the Glasgow scheme it seems that non compliant vehicles are banned altogether from the LEZ.

Note: my 2014 Audi S3 is also compliant with the Glasgow LEZ.

For the Glasgow one, it's also worth noting that it doesn't apply to the motorway which goes right through the LEZ.

[Spud]

Well, tell them to get a bike!

Or a written off car that's been put back on the road - I got a 2008 one with several dents in it and some 'decor', for £700.

[ProfessorDavey]

Can you imagine a plumber going to work on a bike?

Given that the hourly rate for plumbers in London is upwards of £50 (so £400+ for an 8 hour day) I don't think they are going to blink at an additional daily £12.50 cost (less in net when you consider this will simply reduce taxable profit).

[ProfessorDavey]

What I wasn’t aware of is that apparently all the electronics on a lot of cars these days (parking sensors, electric seats, mirrors, aircon etc) means if you walk more and drive the car less in order to protect the environment, or if you don’t drive it at all for 3 weeks while on holiday, you end up with a flat battery. The RAC jumpstart it and tell me I have to drive it for a continuous 45 min to 1 hour drive without turning off the engine every day for the next 3 days. RAC also said the manufacturer says I have to drive it once a week for a continuous 1hr drive to keep the battery from getting flat. Apparently short journeys take more out of the battery. During Covid lockdowns and when LTNs were introduced my battery went flat a few times. Electric cars are plugged in at home to get charged overnight so don’t have this issue.

Not my experience at all.

Years ago when I had a series of fairly old cars flat batteries were common. These days we can go for weeks hardly using the car, if at all, and with only a few short journeys of the kind that wouldn't be great for charging the battery. Never had a problem - with any of the last four cars we've had.

I don't think this is an issue of the make of the car, given that the actual components - battery, alternator, are often standard across different manufacturers. If this is happening regularly sounds as if you have an old battery which isn't holding charge any more or a faulty alternator which isn't charging properly.

[Nearly Sane]

Politics is really very grubby


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66351785

[Aruntraveller]

Speaking as someone who got a fine recently as a result of one of these LTN's (my own stupid, panicked fault) you would think I would welcome Sunak's intervention. I don't. People have to live in these areas. If it makes for a better quieter, less polluted life for them so much the better.

I only wish they'd introduce it on my street which is a 30 mph road, but because it is long and straight and leads into town motorists regularly exceed the speed limit by some margin.

[Nearly Sane]

Speaking as someone who got a fine recently as a result of one of these LTN's (my own stupid, panicked fault) you would think I would welcome Sunak's intervention. I don't. People have to live in these areas. If it makes for a better quieter, less polluted life for them so much the better.

I only wish they'd introduce it on my street which is a 30 mph road, but because it is long and straight and leads into town motorists regularly exceed the speed limit by some margin.

Given it's not clear that the review can result in anything, it is a political smokescreen, a sort of vice signalling. It has nothing to do with policy.

Meanwhile, he'll continue with the no new petrol or diesel car 2030 commitment because that's two parliaments down the road - that they are doing nothing to make it achievable doesn't matter.

[Aruntraveller]

Given it's not clear that the review can result in anything, it is a political smokescreen, a sort of vice signalling. It has nothing to do with policy.

Meanwhile, he'll continue with the no new petrol or diesel car 2030 commitment because that's two parliaments down the road - that they are doing nothing to make it achievable doesn't matter.

I agree. He is appealing to those that think freedom of action, in this regard, is absolute and without consequences. It will be interesting to see how many people it does resonate with.

[jeremyp]

Or a written off car that's been put back on the road - I got a 2008 one with several dents in it and some 'decor', for £700.

A car from 2008 is unlikely to be ULEZ compliant. That might be why it only cost you £700.

[jeremyp]

Speaking as someone who got a fine recently as a result of one of these LTN's (my own stupid, panicked fault) you would think I would welcome Sunak's intervention. I don't. People have to live in these areas. If it makes for a better quieter, less polluted life for them so much the better.

There's a balance. Here in Bristol, the retail centre of town is dying. Cars are heavily restricted both with traffic flow restrictions and the CAZ and there's a large shopping centre about five miles out just off the M5. If you live in the area outside walking distance of the centre and you were planning to do some shopping you'd now choose Cribbs Causeway every time over Bristol city centre. It's got to the point where, if you live within walking distance of the city centre, you'd drive out to Cribbs Causeway rather than waste your time going to the city centre.

Against that, the city is a more pleasant place to walk around but it's getting to the point where nobody wants to walk around it.

I do not know what the solution is.

I only wish they'd introduce it on my street which is a 30 mph road, but because it is long and straight and leads into town motorists regularly exceed the speed limit by some margin.

20mph and speed cameras might do the trick.