Lucy Letby

[Dicky Underpants]

The psychology of this baby-murderer will be long discussed, and no doubt Christian fundamentalists will find the subject a good starting point for talking about the Devil.
One thing in the meantime might prove fruitful discussion, and that is the way the concerns of seven paediatric consultants were so glibly and arrogantly dismissed, let alone their being forced to write an apology to the nurse in question.
The hubris of this 'manager' beggars belief. Has the arsehole who overruled the doctors' concerns been booted out yet? Or has he/she retired quietly with a huge bonus?

[jeremyp]

The psychology of this baby-murderer will be long discussed, and no doubt Christian fundamentalists will find the subject a good starting point for talking about the Devil.
One thing in the meantime might prove fruitful discussion, and that is the way the concerns of seven paediatric consultants were so glibly and arrogantly dismissed, let alone their being forced to write an apology to the nurse in question.
The hubris of this 'manager' beggars belief. Has the arsehole who overruled the doctors' concerns been booted out yet? Or has he/she retired quietly with a huge bonus?

I think our time - or at least the time of the people who will be charged with investigating this - would be better spent figuring out why the consultants' concerns were ignored and how to stop this from happening again.

That said, from what I know of the case, it would be hard for the manager in question to ever again command the confidence of his staff, even if he wasn't shown to be incompetent, so he'll probably have to be removed.

[Dicky Underpants]

I think our time - or at least the time of the people who will be charged with investigating this - would be better spent figuring out why the consultants' concerns were ignored and how to stop this from happening again.

That's basically what I was suggesting, since the questions of LL's psychology may never be resolved.

[jeremyp]

That's basically what I was suggesting, since the questions of LL's psychology may never be resolved.

I was talking about the witch-hunt actually. A lot of people seem to think the manager should be strung up, but that is not necessarily a productive course of action.

[Dicky Underpants]

I was talking about the witch-hunt actually. A lot of people seem to think the manager should be strung up, but that is not necessarily a productive course of action.

Tony Chambers, the nonentity in question, has commented:
"As chief executive, my focus was on the safety of the baby unit and the wellbeing of patients and staff. I was open and inclusive as I responded to information and guidance."

I'm sure we're all tremendously comforted by that. Perhaps he needs a hearing check though?

[Dicky Underpants]

I was talking about the witch-hunt actually. A lot of people seem to think the manager should be strung up, but that is not necessarily a productive course of action.

The other major incompetent in this sorry affair, Alison Kelly,  seems to have met with some kind of tardy justice, but not before having gone through the familiar procedure in such matters of being reappointed somewhere else:

A senior NHS manager who allegedly ignored warnings over serial baby killer Lucy Letby has been suspended.

Alison Kelly was accused in court of failing to act when doctors raised “serious concerns” about the nurse during her tenure as director of nursing and quality at the Countess of Chester Hospital where Letby murdered seven babies.

Ms Kelly is now a director of nursing at the Northern Care Alliance NHS Trust in the Manchester area and local politicians called for her position to be investigated by ministers.

It emerged on Sunday that she has now been suspended due to several allegations that emerged during the court case.

[jeremyp]

Tony Chambers, the nonentity in question, has commented:
"As chief executive, my focus was on the safety of the baby unit and the wellbeing of patients and staff. I was open and inclusive as I responded to information and guidance."

I'm sure we're all tremendously comforted by that. Perhaps he needs a hearing check though?

We have to understand why he put the safety of the patients third in priority behind the baby unit and the staff and we need to figure out how to change that in future. It's not as if he deliberately set out to endanger the lives of the babies in his care. For this to happen, we need his cooperation. If he's stalling the inquiry because his lawyers are telling him he needs to do that to stay out of jail, it doesn't help anybody.

Insults and sarcasm are also not particularly constructive.

[Dicky Underpants]

We have to understand why he put the safety of the patients third in priority behind the baby unit and the staff and we need to figure out how to change that in future. It's not as if he deliberately set out to endanger the lives of the babies in his care. For this to happen, we need his cooperation. If he's stalling the inquiry because his lawyers are telling him he needs to do that to stay out of jail, it doesn't help anybody.

Insults and sarcasm are also not particularly constructive.

Fortunately, there are some senior figures unwilling to go any further down the road of hand-wringing and saying "Oh, but they were only trying to do their best".
This from Dr. Dewi Evans, senior consultant paediatrician:

Evans, 74, a National Crime Agency-accredited expert who has given medical evidence in hundreds of cases since 1988, said he would ask Cheshire constabulary to investigate the hospital management’s “grossly irresponsible” failure to act.

He said: “They were grossly negligent. I shall write to Cheshire police and ask them, from what I have heard following the end of the trial, that I believe that we should now investigate a number of managerial people in relation to issues of corporate manslaughter.

“I think this is a matter that demands an investigation into corporate manslaughter. The police should also investigate the [hospital] in relation to criminal negligence.” He added: “Failing to act was grossly irresponsible – let’s make it as clear as that. We are talking about a serious emergency. It’s grossly irresponsible and, quite frankly, unbelievable [that they failed to act sooner].”

Evans called for the police investigation after being told about a review produced by the manager of the unit where Letby worked in May 2016 that stated: “There is no evidence whatsoever against LL [Lucy Letby] other than coincidence.”

(from the Guardian, 13th Aug)

There is further evidence that the senior management deliberately lied, after a police inquiry had first been called. They claimed that one baby's death had been fully investigated by an external medical expert, who had found nothing unusual. In fact, the expert in question had refused to take up the case on the grounds that she was not given sufficient information about the case, and could not be expected to give an objective opinion.
The whole thing stinks of the familiar phenomenon of hubristic administrative staff getting well above themselves. It appears that high level staff of this kind have the power to get doctors struck off; whereas the reverse does not seem to be true.

[jeremyp]

Fortunately, there are some senior figures unwilling to go any further down the road of hand-wringing and saying "Oh, but they were only trying to do their best".

Who is doing any handwringing?

There is further evidence that the senior management deliberately lied, after a police inquiry had first been called. They claimed that one baby's death had been fully investigated by an external medical expert, who had found nothing unusual. In fact, the expert in question had refused to take up the case on the grounds that she was not given sufficient information about the case, and could not be expected to give an objective opinion.
The whole thing stinks of the familiar phenomenon of hubristic administrative staff getting well above themselves. It appears that high level staff of this kind have the power to get doctors struck off; whereas the reverse does not seem to be true.

Is it your contention that the hospital management knew about the murders but were covering them up? I think you'll need evidence for that. Have you got it?

The hospital management made bad decisions. We need to know why they made bad decisions. What pressures were on them to make these decisions. How can we prevent it from happening again?

People don't deliberately set out to be incompetent. Throwing the last person who was incompetent in prison won't make the next person magically competent.

[SteveH]

Call me alarmist if you will, but there is a law of libel, and I think we should be careful what we say about the management before any trials or disciplinary actions take place.