Author Topic: Hamas attacks Israel.  (Read 41584 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #575 on: July 04, 2024, 09:45:18 PM »
Perhaps some small movements towards a peace


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3gvp5q9y2go

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #576 on: July 06, 2024, 03:40:39 PM »
But then there is this sort of 'settlement' drive from the Israelis which cannot but threaten any negotiations


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czq61w10qwpo

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #577 on: July 08, 2024, 12:11:43 PM »
If there is no change in what is happening in Gaza, then I doubt it will make much difference who the Democrats have and how sprightly they might be.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c51yle4m5pzo
« Last Edit: July 08, 2024, 12:14:24 PM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #578 on: July 10, 2024, 01:18:57 PM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #579 on: July 17, 2024, 08:33:40 AM »
And as one peace process seems to stutter yet again, another war gets more likely.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz5r18zm7lpo

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #580 on: July 17, 2024, 10:00:46 AM »
But then there is this sort of 'settlement' drive from the Israelis which cannot but threaten any negotiations


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czq61w10qwpo
I have not seen Israel's current government give any indication that it has an intention to negotiate for a 2-state solution.

Which then makes it difficult to see how the line trotted out regularly that "Israel has a right to defend itself" does not also apply to Hamas.

Is there any difference between Hamas killing Israeli civilians in response to Israel stealing land through illegal settlements and Israel killing Palestinian civilians in response to a terrorist attack?
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

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“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #581 on: July 17, 2024, 10:09:15 AM »
I have not seen Israel's current government give any indication that it has an intention to negotiate for a 2-state solution.

Which then makes it difficult to see how the line trotted out regularly that "Israel has a right to defend itself" does not also apply to Hamas.

Is there any difference between Hamas killing Israeli civilians in response to Israel stealing land through illegal settlements and Israel killing Palestinian civilians in response to a terrorist attack?
  I think people matter more than land, but otherwise I agree. It's clear that the initial huzzah for the US recession plan were premature, and the US govt does not loom in a position to do anything - though that's one of Biden's many problems in getting back in. Given it looks like the ele tion is already done, it looks like nothing till Trump, and....


I'm so inclined to just switch off when either party speaks here that I miss how lunatic some of their comments are.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #582 on: July 17, 2024, 11:58:57 PM »
I think people matter more than land, but otherwise I agree.
I am not sure I am comparing land with people. Settling land already occupied by others involves violence against the people already living on the land. The Israelis don't want the Palestinians to be there so they drive them out. It's the Palestinian people rather than their land that are suffering because they have no future under Israeli illegal occupation, settlement expansion and violence.

I think oppression is worse than killing people. I think the people who are supporting Ukraine also believe that oppression is worse than killing people and that dying for freedom is honourable - so they support Ukrainians in killing Russians and also in dying for their land to be free - they support this with words, politically and economically and militarily. It's no different if Arabs or Jews believe dying/ being martyred for their country is honourable - it's a well know concept in many cultures including Western cultures. 
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #583 on: July 18, 2024, 03:17:07 PM »
I am not sure I am comparing land with people. Settling land already occupied by others involves violence against the people already living on the land. The Israelis don't want the Palestinians to be there so they drive them out. It's the Palestinian people rather than their land that are suffering because they have no future under Israeli illegal occupation, settlement expansion and violence.

I think oppression is worse than killing people. I think the people who are supporting Ukraine also believe that oppression is worse than killing people and that dying for freedom is honourable - so they support Ukrainians in killing Russians and also in dying for their land to be free - they support this with words, politically and economically and militarily. It's no different if Arabs or Jews believe dying/ being martyred for their country is honourable - it's a well know concept in many cultures including Western cultures. 

So the murdering carried out by Hamas in the attacks that triggered this particular cycle is 'honourable' in your view?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #584 on: July 18, 2024, 03:18:16 PM »
"US military ends Gaza floating aid pier mission" - ineffectual plaster not being replaced.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c728337zy1lo

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #585 on: July 18, 2024, 07:17:42 PM »
So the murdering carried out by Hamas in the attacks that triggered this particular cycle is 'honourable' in your view?
I think going back to school to learn to read English, or a dictionary might help you here with your comprehension skills.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #586 on: July 18, 2024, 10:21:02 PM »
I think going back to school to learn to read English, or a dictionary might help you here with your comprehension skills.
You pulled a bait and switch between killing and dying. I asked a question to allow you to clarify it. Your reaction indicates that you want to maintain the ambivalence for whatever reason.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #587 on: July 19, 2024, 09:24:35 AM »
You pulled a bait and switch between killing and dying. I asked a question to allow you to clarify it. Your reaction indicates that you want to maintain the ambivalence for whatever reason.
::) What happened is the media has conditioned you to think Muslims are terrorists or terrorist sympathisers so your prejudice causes you to read something that isn't there and jump  to prejudiced-based conclusions. Why lie about it? There are plenty of people who think like you and this isn't the first time you've displayed your prejudices on here.

My interest in this thread has been to ask for possible explanations of why some people support Ukrainians fighting and being prepared to die to defend their land but not Palestinians. In both situations it's just land and if "people are more important than land" or so the argument goes why don't the Ukranians love their fellow citizens enough to let Russia take over so no more Ukranians have to die being blown up by Russian missiles or killed by Russian soldiers and no more Russians are being killed by Ukranians conscripted to the military or Ukranian secret operatives carrying out atrocities.

Because that seems to be the argument some people apply to the Palestinians - if defending against Israel's land theft is causing so many Palestinian deaths the Palestinian leadership clearly don't care about the Palestinian people's lives.

If Ukraine and Palestine are not similar situations, I would be interested to hear theories of why they are not similar.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #588 on: July 19, 2024, 09:28:58 AM »
::) What happened is the media has conditioned you to think Muslims are terrorists or terrorist sympathisers so your prejudice causes you to read something that isn't there and jump  to prejudiced-based conclusions. Why lie about it? There are plenty of people who think like you and this isn't the first time you've displayed your prejudices on here.

My interest in this thread has been to ask for possible explanations of why some people support Ukrainians fighting and being prepared to die to defend their land but not Palestinians. In both situations it's just land and if "people are more important than land" or so the argument goes why don't the Ukranians love their fellow citizens enough to let Russia take over so no more Ukranians have to die being blown up by Russian missiles or killed by Russian soldiers and no more Russians are being killed by Ukranians conscripted to the military or Ukranian secret operatives carrying out atrocities.

Because that seems to be the argument some people apply to the Palestinians - if defending against Israel's land theft is causing so many Palestinian deaths the Palestinian leadership clearly don't care about the Palestinian people's lives.

If Ukraine and Palestine are not similar situations, I would be interested to hear theories of why they are not similar.
I don't think Muslims are terrorists, and nothing I've written on here shows that. Not much point in dealing with the rest of a post based on nonsense.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #589 on: July 19, 2024, 10:28:19 AM »
I don't think Muslims are terrorists, and nothing I've written on here shows that. Not much point in dealing with the rest of a post based on nonsense.
::) Of course you don't. You can deny it all you want but your sub-conscious bias against Muslims is evident when you reply on this thread to the only Muslim poster on here. There are plenty of examples of your sub-conscious bias in your posts on this thread. For example, when you keep jumping to interpretations of my posts where you claim I personally agree with or justify the actions of Hamas or that I think their actions are honourable yet when asked for evidence such as quotes of words I have written, you are unable to provide a single quote so far.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #590 on: July 19, 2024, 10:45:01 AM »
::) Of course you don't. You can deny it all you want but your sub-conscious bias against Muslims is evident when you reply on this thread to the only Muslim poster on here. There are plenty of examples of your sub-conscious bias in your posts on this thread. For example, when you keep jumping to interpretations of my posts where you claim I personally agree with or justify the actions of Hamas or that I think their actions are honourable yet when asked for evidence such as quotes of words I have written, you are unable to provide a single quote so far.
So my interpretation of that is, and take your whole post here, and the previous one, as a quote, if someone challenges the only Muslim posting here about their posts they think all Muslim are terrorists.



Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #591 on: July 19, 2024, 10:48:12 AM »
I'm hoping that the ICJ gives clear statements against Israel's murder and occupations.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #592 on: July 19, 2024, 12:39:20 PM »
So my interpretation of that is, and take your whole post here, and the previous one, as a quote, if someone challenges the only Muslim posting here about their posts they think all Muslim are terrorists.
Not quite. Challenging the only Muslim poster is fine. It's the bit where you are never able to provide a quote of the actual words I wrote and the dictionary meaning of those words as evidence to justify your challenge that means your challenge is based on your prejudice. If only you could provide an actual quote or line I wrote as evidence ...but you never can. Every time you are challenged on it you just run away.

How very dishonest of you NS.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #593 on: July 19, 2024, 12:53:40 PM »
Not quite. Challenging the only Muslim poster is fine. It's the bit where you are never able to provide a quote of the actual words I wrote and the dictionary meaning of those words as evidence to justify your challenge that means your challenge is based on your prejudice. If only you could provide an actual quote or line I wrote as evidence ...but you never can. Every time you are challenged on it you just run away.

How very dishonest of you NS.
  I disagree but I find this to be a distraction on a day when the ICJ report is due. Our disagreements about posts here seem pretty meaningless.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #594 on: July 19, 2024, 01:36:48 PM »
  I disagree but I find this to be a distraction on a day when the ICJ report is due. Our disagreements about posts here seem pretty meaningless.
Not as much of a distraction as you repeatedly interpreting posts by the only Muslim poster on here as being support or justification of murder or terrorism while never providing evidence of this. Let's hope the ICJ is not as prejudiced as you.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2024, 02:44:53 PM by The Accountant, OBE, KC »
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #595 on: July 19, 2024, 04:08:13 PM »
Well, it's a start from the ICJ. I'm interested what position the UK govt takes on this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjerjzxlpvdo

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #596 on: July 31, 2024, 07:14:42 PM »
Can't find it my heart to mourn him but let's hope it doesn't escalate further


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4ng7g74xppt

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #597 on: August 03, 2024, 11:30:01 PM »
Can't find it my heart to mourn him but let's hope it doesn't escalate further


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c4ng7g74xppt
Though any hope on non escalation seems fanciful


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c80xxeqel5po

Aruntraveller

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #598 on: August 04, 2024, 12:45:06 PM »
Edging closer to war-war and away from jaw-jaw.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #599 on: August 05, 2024, 01:13:42 AM »
And the actual war war bit continues on its dark path


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9x88jpw05lo