Hamas attacks Israel.

[bluehillside Retd.]

VG,

I didn't see a question there. An obvious interpretation is that NS thinks it's ok to murder babies. That's why I thought it fascinating that a mod on this forum appears to think it's ok to murder babies...that Hamas and Netanyahu feel that way doesn't surprise me but that someone on this forum apparently thinks it's ok to murder babies I found fascinating.

Do you think it's ok to murder babies too?

Again, he was challenging your position by paraphrasing it (or at least what it appears to be). Not for one moment did NS imply that he thought murdering babies was justified. No sane person thinks that.   

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

VG,

Again, he was challenging your position by paraphrasing it (or at least what it appears to be). Not for one moment did NS imply that he thought murdering babies was justified. No sane person thinks that.

Again, NS has not denied he thinks it's ok to murder babies and it wasn't phrased as a question. Neither have you. Why aren't you and NS stating that you think it's not ok to murder babies?

I don't think it's ok to murder babies. See - it's not difficult, is it? Your turn.

[Nearly Sane]

Again, NS has not denied he thinks it's ok to murder babies and it wasn't phrased as a question. Neither have you. Why are you and NS not stating that you think it's not ok to murder babies?

I don't think it's ok to murder babies. See - it's not difficult, is it? Your turn.

You've sought to justify the murder of children.

[Nearly Sane]

If that's how you feel, ok.

It's fascinating watching you in action.

I wish I could say the same about you.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

You've sought to justify the murder of children.

Stop projecting. You're the one who said it's perfectly ok to murder babies.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I wish I could say the same about you.

'K

[bluehillside Retd.]

VG,

Again, NS has not denied he thinks it's ok to murder babies and it wasn't phrased as a question. Neither have you. Why aren't you and NS stating that you think it's not ok to murder babies?

I don't think it's ok to murder babies. See - it's not difficult, is it? Your turn.

This is mad. Your un-nuanced mind is letting you down again here. Of course he wasn’t suggesting that murdering babies is OK – he was paraphrasing (what appeared to be) your justification of it with your references to Israel’s historic mistreatment of the Palestinians.

If you didn’t think that Israel’s historic mistreatment the Palestinians justified Hamas’ murder of Jewish babies though then all you had to do was to say so.

As for me, how much clearer about that than “No sane person thinks that” would you like me to be?         

[bluehillside Retd.]

VG,

Stop projecting. You're the one who said it's perfectly ok to murder babies.

FFS.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

VG,

This is mad. Your un-nuanced mind is letting you down again here. Of course he wasn’t suggesting that murdering babies is OK – he was paraphrasing (what appeared to be) your justification of it with your references to Israel’s historic mistreatment of the Palestinians.

If you didn’t think that Israel’s historic mistreatment the Palestinians justified Hamas’ murder of Jewish babies though then all you had to do was to say so.

As for me, how much clearer about that than “No sane person thinks that” would you like me to be?         

Just checking because if you think "no sane person thinks that" and yet you asked me if I think that, this would suggest you think I am insane. Similarly I think you are insane, so I had to check. Given NS's name on here is Nearly Sane, obviously we need him to confirm his position on killing babies.

Do you and NS think that the murders carried out by Hamas against Israeli civilians justifies the Israeli government killing Palestinian babies by carrying out their airstrikes on Gaza?

[Dicky Underpants]

Just checking because if you think "no sane person thinks that" and yet you asked me if I think that, this would suggest you think I am insane. Similarly I think you are insane, so I had to check. Given NS's name on here is Nearly Sane, obviously we need him to confirm his position on killing babies.

Do you and NS think that the murders carried out by Hamas against Israeli civilians justifies the Israeli government killing Palestinian babies by carrying out their airstrikes on Gaza?

"When you're in a hole...."

[Dicky Underpants]

I didn't see a question there.

I think most people used to the subtleties of the English language would have thought a question was implied.

[Spud]

Agreed the Tamils who wanted a separate Tamil state have currently accepted they cannot have their own homeland - they wanted it because they faced discriminatory laws and widespread racist attacks from nationalist extremists with no protection from the authorities. Many Tamils were murdered or lost their homes. The Prevention of Terrorism Act and other laws passed in Sri Lanka today allow arbitrary arrest of people and they are often tortured held without charge for months, sometimes years.

However, unlike the sudden influx of Jews into Palestine in the 20th century, the Tamils and Sinhalese have lived in Sri Lanka since at least 2 BC and the Tamils were asking for about 6 or 7 % of the total land area of Sri Lanka. The UN Partition Plan allocated approximately 55% of the land of historic Palestine (including some of the most fertile land) to the Jewish state even though Jews only owned 7% of the land. Following wars Israel acquired even more of the land by forcibly removing Arabs and not allowing the Arab refugees to return to their homelands.

Under the circumstances, many Palestinians probably think they have been pretty restrained. I am not particularly surprised, given the diversity of human personalities in difficult circumstances, that some Palestinians such as Hamas have such extreme reactions to Israeli oppression. Not everyone's nature/ nurture will lead them to be a Gandhi or a Mandela.

The thing about the Tamil/Sinhalese situation is, the Tamils tried to get what they felt they were entitled to through terrorism (Tigers). That's the problem here too. And as with the situation in Gaza now, Tamil civilians were caught up in the last big Tigers standoff.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

"When you're in a hole...."

Good advice for NS and BHS

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I think most people used to the subtleties of the English language would have thought a question was implied.

As it happens I got an A for English at A'Level so I might be able to help you with this. This is how you frame a question - do you DU think it's perfectly ok to kill babies as a response to the murder of family members - Israeli, Palestinian or any baby for that matter?

So do you?

I figure there's no harm in checking with individual posters on here about their views on whether it's ok to kill babies - because apparently NS does think it's perfectly ok to kill babies as he hasn't denied it since he posted that comment.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

The thing about the Tamil/Sinhalese situation is, the Tamils tried to get what they felt they were entitled to through terrorism (Tigers). That's the problem here too. And as with the situation in Gaza now, Tamil civilians were caught up in the last big Tigers standoff.

Agreed - terrorism does not solve anything. People who engage in terrorism usually find themselves trapped in an endless cycle of violence, whether it's the LTTE, the Sri Lankan government, Hamas, the Israeli government, the Jewish terrorist organisations that were murdering people to form the State of Israel etc   

ETA: The international community were not able to stop the Sri Lankan government's scorched earth policy of carpet bombing the area the civilians were trapped in, including bombing hospitals, and killing many innocent men, women and children. So am expecting a similar outcome in Gaza. As various doctors on the ground in Gaza have pointed out, the bombing of children feels like an execution. Hamas executed Israeli children and now the Israeli government are taking revenge by executing Palestinian children.

[bluehillside Retd.]

VG,

Just checking because if you think "no sane person thinks that" and yet you asked me if I think that, this would suggest you think I am insane.

If you think that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians justifies Hamas' murder of babies in their homes (as you implied) then yes, or at least if not insane then morally bankrupt.

Similarly I think you are insane, so I had to check. Given NS's name on here is Nearly Sane, obviously we need him to confirm his position on killing babies.

Non sequitur. There is no “similarly” because I didn’t seek to justify the murder of babies by referencing the behaviour of their country of citizenship. The moral bankruptcy was only yours.

Do you and NS think that the murders carried out by Hamas against Israeli civilians justifies the Israeli government killing Palestinian babies by carrying out their airstrikes on Gaza?

NS can speak for himself, but I’ve made clear that I don’t think that anything justifies the murder of babies. Presumably the Israelis would seek to draw a moral difference between the cold-blooded hunting down and slaughter of families in their homes by gunmen and the killing of non-combatants used as human shields at rocket launch sites in the Gaza Strip for example, but that’s a different matter.     

Good advice for NS and BHS

Tu quoque fallacy.

As it happens I got an A for English at A'Level so I might be able to help you with this. This is how you frame a question - do you DU think it's perfectly ok to kill babies as a response to the murder of family members - Israeli, Palestinian or any baby for that matter?

So do you?

As it happens I got a Distinction for my “S” Level English so I might be able to help you with this. What NS posted was a type of reductio ad absurdum – he framed back to you the argument you implied (that the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians over decades somehow justifies Hamas murdering Israeli families in their homes) to show its moral bankruptcy.

Hope that helps you.

I figure there's no harm in checking with individual posters on here about their views on whether it's ok to kill babies - because apparently NS does think it's perfectly ok to kill babies as he hasn't denied it since he posted that comment.

You can stop lying about that now. He think no such thing, and nor does his version of a reductio ad absurdum imply that he does. 

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

VG,

If you think that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians justifies Hamas' murder of babies in their homes (as you implied) then yes, or at least if not insane then morally bankrupt.

Except I did not imply that. Lying is not a good look for you or NS.

Non sequitur. There is no “similarly” because I didn’t seek to justify the murder of babies by referencing the behaviour of their country of citizenship. The moral bankruptcy was only yours.

Still lying as I did not justify murder. You arbitrarily interpreting and deciding that talking about the behaviour of Israel is a justification of murder by Hamas is your bigotry letting you down. Lying and bigotry on your part - not a good look.

NS can speak for himself, but I’ve made clear that I don’t think that anything justifies the murder of babies. Presumably the Israelis would seek to draw a moral difference between the cold-blooded hunting down and slaughter of families in their homes by gunmen and the killing of non-combatants used as human shields at rocket launch sites in the Gaza Strip for example, but that’s a different matter.

Yes the Israelis might draw that moral difference by trying to argue that they were only seeking to destroy rocket launchers during their indiscriminate air strikes of civilian buildings and resulting execution of Palestinian babies. Only someone insane would believe them.

The question is by talking about the Israelis drawing that moral difference, are you implying that you also draw that moral difference?     

As it happens I got a Distinction for my “S” Level English so I might be able to help you with this. What NS posted was a type of reductio ad absurdum – he framed back to you the argument you implied (that the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians over decades somehow justifies Hamas murdering Israeli families in their homes) to show its moral bankruptcy.

Hope that helps you.

You lying to support NS lying is still not a good look. Despite your Distinction you appear to not know what the word "justifies" means. Please define what you think "justifies" means and quote where I justified Hamas murdering Israeli families

You can stop lying about that now. He think no such thing, and nor does his version of a reductio ad absurdum imply that he does.

I suggest you and NS stop lying and have a think about why it might be hypocritical for you both to have an issue with lying, given your own morally bankrupt behaviour.

[Spud]

VG,

If you think that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians justifies Hamas' murder of babies in their homes (as you implied) 

She doesn't think that nor has she implied it. She said people are diverse and it's not surprising that some of them react violently to the way Israelis treated Palestinians. 

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

She doesn't think that nor has she implied it. She said people are diverse and it's not surprising that some of them react violently to the way Israelis treated Palestinians.

Thanks Spud.

NS and BHS arbitrarily deciding that those talking about Israel's violent actions are justifying the murders by Hamas is a sign of their "insanity".

Or a sinister attempt to try to control the conversations about the murders being committed by Israel.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

That's true. Hamas goes out specifically to murder civilians. Sometimes they take babies and cut their heads off.

Just checking - did you manage to get any independent verification of this claim you made about babies being beheaded? So far on the internet all I can find is that it hasn't been verified:

https://news.sky.com/story/its-important-to-separate-the-facts-from-speculation-what-we-actually-know-about-the-viral-report-of-beheaded-babies-in-israel-12982329

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/biden-israel-hamas-images-children_n_6527d0cce4b09f4b8d433731

[SteveH]

Just checking - did you manage to get any independent verification of this claim you made about babies being beheaded? So far on the internet all I can find is that it hasn't been verified:

https://news.sky.com/story/its-important-to-separate-the-facts-from-speculation-what-we-actually-know-about-the-viral-report-of-beheaded-babies-in-israel-12982329

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/biden-israel-hamas-images-children_n_6527d0cce4b09f4b8d433731

I must say that it sounds like the sort of atrocity story that each side tells about the other in war-time, likeWW1 German soldiers bayonetting babies, or Spanish republicans raping nuns in the Spanish civil war.

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

Yes - history has shown that atrocity propaganda is easily swallowed by the weak-minded and the prejudiced, without first seeking verification or evidence of the facts. This then leads to even greater atrocities by the people who have swallowed the propaganda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda

For example, after Israeli airstrikes hospitals in Gaza are reporting many burned Palestinian babies and children and children with shrapnel wounds who need to be rushed into surgery but Israel have cut off electricity to Gaza. 

If we're swapping beheading stories:

In Shifa hospital, Muhammad al-Gharabli told AP how he had witnessed missiles crashing into a mosque in the seaside Shati refugee camp on Monday, decapitating his two-year-old son, Mohammed, and sending shrapnel into the leg of his five-year-old son, Lotfi. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/12/israel-hamas-war-gaza-hospitals-casualties

At least we have actual footage of the Israelis and their supporters boasting about turning Gaza into a concentration camp - the Nazis taught them well.

Airstrikes vs gas chambers vs slaughtered by Hamas - should we have a poll on which seems the better way to die?

[Nearly Sane]

Dread to think what happens here.

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-hamas-war-un-says-israels-evacuation-order-of-1-1-million-palestinians-in-gaza-is-impossible-12983536

[bluehillside Retd.]

Spud,

She doesn't think that nor has she implied it. She said people are diverse and it's not surprising that some of them react violently to the way Israelis treated Palestinians. 

Here’s VG (Reply 64):

Under the circumstances, many Palestinians probably think they have been pretty restrained. I am not particularly surprised, given the diversity of human personalities in difficult circumstances, that some Palestinians such as Hamas have such extreme reactions to Israeli oppression. Not everyone's nature/ nurture will lead them to be a Gandhi or a Mandela.

That’s sounds like an implied justification to me. You obviously think differently.

[Spud]

Spud,

Here’s VG (Reply 64):

That’s sounds like an implied justification to me. You obviously think differently.

Which bit in particular?