Author Topic: Hamas attacks Israel.  (Read 41979 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #250 on: October 30, 2023, 07:45:27 PM »

Since the two state solution means the end if Israel as it is currently constituted, and that is govt policy, Bravetman 'thinks' she's a member of a govt that has a policy of hate.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/suella-braverman-hits-out-at-pro-palestinian-hate-marches/ar-AA1j67P7

Nearly Sane

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #252 on: November 01, 2023, 08:46:39 AM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #253 on: November 01, 2023, 02:38:14 PM »
Frankie Boyle on X


(Surely the rules it supposedly gave them are part of the problem - 'Promised Land')

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #254 on: November 01, 2023, 04:09:02 PM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #255 on: November 01, 2023, 05:48:37 PM »
"considered offensive to many"

So fucking what?


https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/67283593

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #256 on: November 02, 2023, 07:10:07 AM »
Excellent article by Fintan O'Toole - apologies that the archive tool has left one bit a mess, though it is readable, just.


https://archive.vn/pRF0Z

Alan Burns

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #257 on: November 02, 2023, 08:45:59 AM »
Chilling warning about the true nature of Hamas from the son of a Hamas leader who has defected and become a Christian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMCC2ihCowg
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #258 on: November 02, 2023, 08:57:07 AM »
Chilling warning about the true nature of Hamas from the son of a Hamas leader who has defected and become a Christian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMCC2ihCowg
In the video it highlights what Hamas were 'willing to do to Holocaust victims'. I wonder what the primary religion of those who carried out the Holocaust was? Could you help me out on that, Alan? I mean I'd like to just make sure in my mind that while children are dying, in part because of religious  exceptionalism, you weren't just indulging in a spot of undeserved religious exceptionalism of your own. 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2023, 09:19:09 AM by Nearly Sane »

SteveH

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #259 on: November 02, 2023, 09:02:16 AM »
Chilling warning about the true nature of Hamas from the son of a Hamas leader who has defected and become a Christian:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMCC2ihCowg
It's Fox News, so I suppose it must be true. ::)
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #260 on: November 02, 2023, 12:17:04 PM »
The effort that goes into this amount of offence taking must be absolutely exhausting.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67294809

Alan Burns

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #261 on: November 02, 2023, 12:38:26 PM »
In the video it highlights what Hamas were 'willing to do to Holocaust victims'. I wonder what the primary religion of those who carried out the Holocaust was? Could you help me out on that, Alan? I mean I'd like to just make sure in my mind that while children are dying, in part because of religious  exceptionalism, you weren't just indulging in a spot of undeserved religious exceptionalism of your own.
Perpetrators of the Holocaust certainly could not claim to be following the teachings of Jesus.   Hamas, however, do claim to be following the teachings of the Koran.
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #262 on: November 02, 2023, 12:42:11 PM »
Perpetrators of the Holocaust certainly could not claim to be following the teachings of Jesus.   Hamas, however, do claim to be following the teachings of the Koran.
But many perpetrators of the Holocaust did claim to be following the teachings of Christ. Your post makes no sense.

Aruntraveller

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #263 on: November 02, 2023, 12:46:51 PM »
Alan doesn't accept the Spanish Inquisition.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #264 on: November 02, 2023, 08:37:58 PM »
Perpetrators of the Holocaust certainly could not claim to be following the teachings of Jesus.   Hamas, however, do claim to be following the teachings of the Koran.

This is a Christian talking about Gaza.


'We were married in Palestine. In a beautiful Christian church in Bethlehem with so many of our special friends and family. With a Pastor who was full of life and commitment to his church and community. It was magical and one of the most extraordinary experiences of my life. To top it all off, I married into one of the BEST families ever. I, an outsider, a stranger, a foreigner, was welcomed unconditionally.

I, admittedly, had no idea the life I had just signed up for. Not only would I be served some of the most delicious food in the world, some of the most incredible joy and laughter at all hours of the night, but I would also find out what daily life looked life under an occupation. I was naive and didn't understand a lot of the complexity of what life under occupation meant. As a white woman from the US, I have not ever experienced the discrimination that my Palestinian community has faced.

As Bshara and I observed our 8 year wedding anniversary after October 7th of this year, it was was a somber celebration. In eight years I have had to work hard to deconstruct a lot of what I have learned about places like Palestine in my childhood. I have had to step back and learn from a community that is full of richness and culture.

After experiencing the occupation on my own and witnessing an occupational force that is designed to restrict the movement of people from city to city, I realized that I could no longer stay silent on what was happening. Then I came back to the US and realized some of the fiercest supporters of the occupation of my family were indeed Christians themselves right here in the US.

TO MY CHRISTIAN SIBLINGS

You have a responsibility in what is happening right now in Israel/Palestine. You have a responsibility to your Christian community in Gaza and the women and children of ALL religions that are being taken from this earth in some of the most horrific attacks the region has ever seen.

If your mind just went to, "well I have no idea what is happening", or "this issue is too complex", or even "well Hamas is killing them in the first place" - I am challenging you to take a deeper look. These past two weeks did not start from nowhere. This occupation started 75 years ago and our Christian community took a great deal of responsibility in letting it happen.

We must do better. We must listen better. We must advocate better and call for a ceasefire that is killing innocent lives by the hundreds/thousands every day. In a letter, our Christian communities in the Holy Land are begging us to pay attention:

"...Sadly, Palestinian non-violent resistance, which we remain wholeheartedly committed to, is met with rejection, with some western Christian leaders even prohibiting the discussion of Israeli apartheid as reported by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and B’Tselem, and as long asserted by both Palestinians and South Africans..."

I am happy to talk to you and share more of my experiences, to share resources, to walk with you through some of the questions you might have in these days to come. But the world has shown you what is happening, and we simply CANNOT choose ignorance or ambivalence in a time like this. Where both our Palestinian and Jewish communities need for us to take a closer look at how the occupation is destroying communities on every level.

Please, I challenge you to take a closer look with me. This is your Christian duty.'
« Last Edit: November 02, 2023, 09:14:51 PM by Nearly Sane »

Alan Burns

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #265 on: November 02, 2023, 10:39:58 PM »
Extracted from "Voice for Justice"

We must not allow this
evil to spread
Between 1941 and 1945, in what was described by the Nazis as ‘the final solution to the Jewish problem’, the world witnessed the systematic slaughter of over 6,000,000 Jews – men, women and children, all condemned indiscriminately to what were at the time euphemistically called ‘labour camps’, but in reality were simply ‘death camps’.   The aim was literally to wipe out all Jews across Europe, for the simple reason that, to Hitler and his fellow Nazis, the Jewish race was subhuman and evil.
 
This was genocide on an unimaginable scale and in the aftermath of WW2, when the full horror of the Concentration Camps was exposed, the world vowed that such atrocities would never happen again.  On 3 September 1953, The European Convention on Human Rights, designed to protect fundamental human freedoms, such as the right to life, freedom of belief, and protection from discrimination, torture, the death penalty, etc, came into force (https://www.echr.coe.int/european-convention-on-human-rights).  It has remained in force for the last 70 years, as we have continued to celebrate and defend those freedoms – yet now, almost unbelievably, we are seeing that same spirit, aimed at the total annihilation of the Jews, once again manifesting on our streets.   
 
On 7 October, the world was sickened by news of the murderous, surprise attack launched by Hamas on Israel.   1,400 died in that raid, in the main civilians simply going about their daily lives, while some 230 were kidnapped and taken back to Gaza – seemingly, as bargaining chips designed to prevent retaliation.   The attack was a declaration of war by terrorists, whose stated aim is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth (https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas#:~:text=In%201988%2C%20Hamas%20published%20its,Islamic%
20society%20in%20historic%20Palestine). 
 
Since that time, as Israel has sought to counter the threat of Hamas and fighting has broken out in the Gaza strip and beyond, there has been global outcry on the part of those sympathetic to the Palestinian cause for an immediate cessation to hostilities.  By which it is meant, in practice, that Hamas will remain free to pursue its murderous campaign, but that Israel must not retaliate.
 
Let us, however, consider – from the start, Hamas have shown themselves prepared to sacrifice the Palestinian people in pursuit of their stated aim to destroy Israel.   To this end, they have hidden their weapons and infrastructure amongst the civilian population, ruthlessly exploiting men, women, children, and the sick, in order to deter retaliation.  Thus, rockets, used to rain down terror on Israel, have been cold-bloodedly hidden in schools and hospitals, so that if Israel dares try and eliminate them, it can be castigated for targeting civilians and breaking the rules of war.
 
Let us make no mistake, the goal of Islamist terror groups is not limited to Israel, but extends to the destruction of all Jewish people across the world.  And, with calls for jihad and intifada ringing out from the so-called ‘peace marches’, those poisonous tendrils are now taking root in our own streets.
 
In all conscience we cannot, and must not, permit this.
 
It is entirely right that Israel take appropriate and proportionate action to defend itself from threat, and those who are genuine in their calls for peace should, first and foremost, be condemning not them, but Hamas – for the good of both Jews and Palestinians alike.  For genuine peace, protestors should be calling for the condemnation and removal of all terrorists from Gaza and the Palestinian territories.  Because only then will the civilian population of both States be able to live in peace.   
 
Likewise, so-called pro-Palestinian demonstrations in the UK should, in the first instance, be condemning Hamas, not Israel – castigating the terrorists for their harsh and uncaring exploitation of those who cannot defend themselves.  As it is, calling for violent holy war callously disregards the ordinary citizens of Gaza and simply exposes the murderous hatred towards Israel, and indeed the West as a whole, that exists amongst some sections of society and that turns such demonstrations – as Suella Braverman has so bravely and accurately said – into hate marches, designed to foment violence and war (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/30/uk-ministers-cobra-meeting-terrorism-threat-israel-hamas-conflict-suella-braverman).
 
The suffering of the Palestinian people in Gaza is unquestionably appalling and all must want it to end.  But the war, deliberately provoked and engineered by Hamas, does not and cannot justify the rise in anti-Semitism now evident of our streets, and indeed across the whole world.  We are seeing the resurrection of an ancient evil, and the murderous spirit so evident in the death camps must not be allowed once again to take root in our streets.  England resisted such evil in WW2, and we must resist it now. 
 
There is compelling evidence that the campaign of protest against Israel in the UK is being manipulated by terror networks linked to Iran, shamelessly manipulating the truth in order to support their preferred narrative of Israeli oppression (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/iran-agents-uk-pro-palestine-protests-9f8pst6vf).

It is unquestionably this that has led to the horrifying rise in anti-semitic attacks over the last month, with hate crimes against Jews reportedly increasing by a staggering 1,350%.  The situation has indeed become so bad that many Jews in the UK are now afraid to venture out on the streets.
 
At every level, this is unacceptable.  The authorities must act without delay to stop all demonstrations that incite hatred against the Jews, and those that advocate and endorse such behaviour must be held accountable before the law.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2023, 10:44:01 PM by Alan Burns »
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #266 on: November 02, 2023, 10:45:10 PM »
Extracted from "Voice for Justice"

We must not allow this
evil to spread
Between 1941 and 1945, in what was described by the Nazis as ‘the final solution to the Jewish problem’, the world witnessed the systematic slaughter of over 6,000,000 Jews – men, women and children, all condemned indiscriminately to what were at the time euphemistically called ‘labour camps’, but in reality were simply ‘death camps’.   The aim was literally to wipe out all Jews across Europe, for the simple reason that, to Hitler and his fellow Nazis, the Jewish race was subhuman and evil.
 
This was genocide on an unimaginable scale and in the aftermath of WW2, when the full horror of the Concentration Camps was exposed, the world vowed that such atrocities would never happen again.  On 3 September 1953, The European Convention on Human Rights, designed to protect fundamental human freedoms, such as the right to life, freedom of belief, and protection from discrimination, torture, the death penalty, etc, came into force (https://www.echr.coe.int/european-convention-on-human-rights).  It has remained in force for the last 70 years, as we have continued to celebrate and defend those freedoms – yet now, almost unbelievably, we are seeing that same spirit, aimed at the total annihilation of the Jews, once again manifesting on our streets.   
 
On 7 October, the world was sickened by news of the murderous, surprise attack launched by Hamas on Israel.   1,400 died in that raid, in the main civilians simply going about their daily lives, while some 230 were kidnapped and taken back to Gaza – seemingly, as bargaining chips designed to prevent retaliation.   The attack was a declaration of war by terrorists, whose stated aim is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth (https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-hamas#:~:text=In%201988%2C%20Hamas%20published%20its,Islamic%
20society%20in%20historic%20Palestine). 
 
Since that time, as Israel has sought to counter the threat of Hamas and fighting has broken out in the Gaza strip and beyond, there has been global outcry on the part of those sympathetic to the Palestinian cause for an immediate cessation to hostilities.  By which it is meant, in practice, that Hamas will remain free to pursue its murderous campaign, but that Israel must not retaliate.
 
Let us, however, consider – from the start, Hamas have shown themselves prepared to sacrifice the Palestinian people in pursuit of their stated aim to destroy Israel.   To this end, they have hidden their weapons and infrastructure amongst the civilian population, ruthlessly exploiting men, women, children, and the sick, in order to deter retaliation.  Thus, rockets, used to rain down terror on Israel, have been cold-bloodedly hidden in schools and hospitals, so that if Israel dares try and eliminate them, it can be castigated for targeting civilians and breaking the rules of war.
 
Let us make no mistake, the goal of Islamist terror groups is not limited to Israel, but extends to the destruction of all Jewish people across the world.  And, with calls for jihad and intifada ringing out from the so-called ‘peace marches’, those poisonous tendrils are now taking root in our own streets.
 
In all conscience we cannot, and must not, permit this.
 
It is entirely right that Israel take appropriate and proportionate action to defend itself from threat, and those who are genuine in their calls for peace should, first and foremost, be condemning not them, but Hamas – for the good of both Jews and Palestinians alike.  For genuine peace, protestors should be calling for the condemnation and removal of all terrorists from Gaza and the Palestinian territories.  Because only then will the civilian population of both States be able to live in peace.   
 
Likewise, so-called pro-Palestinian demonstrations in the UK should, in the first instance, be condemning Hamas, not Israel – castigating the terrorists for their harsh and uncaring exploitation of those who cannot defend themselves.  As it is, calling for violent holy war callously disregards the ordinary citizens of Gaza and simply exposes the murderous hatred towards Israel, and indeed the West as a whole, that exists amongst some sections of society and that turns such demonstrations – as Suella Braverman has so bravely and accurately said – into hate marches, designed to foment violence and war (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/oct/30/uk-ministers-cobra-meeting-terrorism-threat-israel-hamas-conflict-suella-braverman).
 
The suffering of the Palestinian people in Gaza is unquestionably appalling and all must want it to end.  But the war, deliberately provoked and engineered by Hamas, does not and cannot justify the rise in anti-Semitism now evident of our streets, and indeed across the whole world.  We are seeing the resurrection of an ancient evil, and the murderous spirit so evident in the death camps must not be allowed once again to take root in our streets.  England resisted such evil in WW2, and we must resist it now. 
 
There is compelling evidence that the campaign of protest against Israel in the UK is being manipulated by terror networks linked to Iran, shamelessly manipulating the truth in order to support their preferred narrative of Israeli oppression (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/iran-agents-uk-pro-palestine-protests-9f8pst6vf).

It is unquestionably this that has led to the horrifying rise in anti-semitic attacks over the last month, with hate crimes against Jews reportedly increasing by a staggering 1,350%.  The situation has indeed become so bad that many Jews in the UK are now afraid to venture out on the streets.
 
At every level, this is unacceptable.  The authorities must act without delay to stop all demonstrations that incite hatred against the Jews, and those that advocate and endorse such behaviour must be held accountable before the law.  [/i]
and again Christians were instrumental in the Holocaust abd the attempt to wipe out the Jews. . Your religious exceptionalism is both ahistorical and hypocritical. You use the same rhetoric as Hamas.


Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #267 on: November 02, 2023, 10:53:28 PM »
and again Christians were instrumental in the Holocaust abd the attempt to wipe out the Jews. . Your religious exceptionalism is both ahistorical and hypocritical. You use the same rhetoric as Hamas.
And it should of course be noted that the Christians that were Nazis helped in the murder of homosexuals in the camps, inspired by the idea that gay people were not eqyal, and that Voices for Justice also campaign for homisexual relationships to be discriminated against. You are using the murders by Hamas to foment your own petty hatreds, Alan.

SteveH

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #268 on: November 02, 2023, 11:21:57 PM »
Godwin's law.
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #269 on: November 03, 2023, 05:07:48 PM »
What British values would the protest be against?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67305535

Alan Burns

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #270 on: November 04, 2023, 07:22:49 PM »
and again Christians were instrumental in the Holocaust abd the attempt to wipe out the Jews. . Your religious exceptionalism is both ahistorical and hypocritical. You use the same rhetoric as Hamas.
The perpetrators of the holocaust were certainly not following the teachings of Jesus, so you can in no way associate the evil of the holocaust with Christianity. 
The truth will set you free  - John 8:32
Truth is not an abstraction, but a person - Edith Stein
Free will, though it makes evil possible, is also the only thing that makes possible any love or goodness or joy worth having. - CS Lewis
Joy is the Gigantic Secret of Christians - GK Chesterton

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #271 on: November 04, 2023, 08:00:59 PM »
The perpetrators of the holocaust were certainly not following the teachings of Jesus, so you can in no way associate the evil of the holocaust with Christianity.
And I know many Muslims who would say that about Hamas. But since you don't think their position is valid, you cannot justify your own. And that's leaving aside the No True Scotsman fallacy you used.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2023, 08:05:08 PM by Nearly Sane »

Spud

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #272 on: November 04, 2023, 09:14:49 PM »
And that's leaving aside the No True Scotsman fallacy you used.
Whose teaching do true Scotsmen follow?

Spud

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #273 on: November 04, 2023, 09:16:27 PM »
Someone I knew once said that northerners put their trousers on before their shirt in the morning...

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #274 on: November 04, 2023, 09:50:05 PM »
Whose teaching do true Scotsmen follow?
Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "But no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman