Author Topic: Hamas attacks Israel.  (Read 41549 times)

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #625 on: August 08, 2024, 06:49:51 PM »
My argument is that what you think is determined by nature/ nurture/ circumstances - so information you read on this thread is part of nurture/ circumstances and will be one of the causes / determinants of what you think about the situation in the Middle East.

I could not see how your post declaring you currently don't have an inclination to murder innocents in the Middle East adds anything to the understanding of the situation in the ME - you are not in the situation that would lead you to murder innocents in Palestine or Israel so of course you won't murder them at the moment, but if you were in that situation you likely would murder them.
And your argument seems to agree with that position, without the qualification I covered earlier, so you think Netanyahu does what you would do if you were him.

I can't help (jokey reference) but feel that you are indulging in a tedious argument here ignoring the suffering of those in Gaza.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #626 on: August 08, 2024, 07:02:52 PM »
And your argument seems to agree with that position, without the qualification I covered earlier, so you think Netanyahu does what you would do if you were him.
Seems we both agree that if either of us were in the position / circumstances/ nature/ nurture of Netanyahu or Hamas' leadership, we would both do what Netanyahu/ Hamas does - murder innocents and order assassinations. Not sure what qualification you are referring to.

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I can't help (jokey reference) but feel that you are indulging in a tedious argument here ignoring the suffering of those in Gaza.
As you have demonstrated many times on here, you can't help what you think... until additional information on here or elsewhere causes you to think differently.

Doesn't mean what you think is accurate.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #627 on: August 08, 2024, 07:04:24 PM »
Seems we both agree that if either of us were in the position / circumstances/ nature/ nurture of Netanyahu or Hamas' leadership, we would both do what Netanyahu/ Hamas does - murder innocents and order assassinations. Not sure what qualification you are referring to.
As you have demonstrated many times on here, you can't help what you think... until additional information on here or elsewhere causes you to think differently.

Doesn't mean what you think is accurate.
No, we haven't agreed that. That is your position which says you agree that you would do everything that Netanyahu has done.

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #628 on: August 08, 2024, 07:10:01 PM »
No, we haven't agreed that. That is your position which says you agree that you would do everything that Netanyahu has done.
That's your position too based on the arguments you made on the Searching for God thread that our actions are determined.
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #629 on: August 08, 2024, 07:14:28 PM »
That's your position too based on the arguments you made on the Searching for God thread that our actions are determined.
And again I explained the difference between that as a philosophical idea and a day to day discussion earlier. If you want to take the position you do get, you approve of Netanyahu

The Accountant, OBE, KC

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #630 on: August 09, 2024, 09:53:01 AM »
And again I explained the difference between that as a philosophical idea and a day to day discussion earlier. If you want to take the position you do get, you approve of Netanyahu
How do you reach that conclusion - how are you defining "approve" here? The philosophical idea that our actions are either determined (or random) does not say anything about approval or disapproval in the sense of morality such as thinking an action is "good" or "bad".

People are held accountable for their intentions and actions by our legal system but the legal system acknowledges that these intentions and actions were determined by the person's circumstances/ nature/ nurture. Acknowledging that people's actions are determined by past events does not mean the courts approve those actions or think that those actions are "good".

The act of holding people accountable then becomes part of the nurture/ circumstances that will be a determinant in the future thoughts and conduct of the person being held accountable. Hence, the ICC issuing arrest warrants for Hamas leaders as well as Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant will be a factor or determinant of their future thoughts and actions.

I thought your statement in your post that you thought it was not that "bad" to assassinate extremists (relatively speaking) in comparison to whatever "bad" action the extremist had carried out was an interesting thing to say - as it raised the issue of the problem with vigilante justice that we are seeing in the Israel Palestine issue i.e. each government leader or organisation leader or militant leader deciding for themselves who they consider to be an extremist and deserving of assassination.

Maybe on this forum we all think assassinations are not that bad relatively speaking, but I thought it was interesting - how far is it from one of us living in peaceful Britain thinking/ stating the idea that "it's not that bad (relatively speaking)" to the point where the long-time past or immediate past circumstances/ nature/ nurture of an individual growing up in Palestine or Israel determines their choice to actually order the assassination of leaders and then to the point where bombing innocent people becomes "not that bad (relatively speaking)" in pursuit of political goals.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2024, 09:55:14 AM by The Accountant, OBE, KC »
I identify as a Sword because I have abstract social constructs e.g. honour and patriotism. My preferred pronouns are "kill/ maim/ dismember"

Quite handy with weapons - available for hire to defeat money laundering crooks around the world.

“Forget safety. Live where you fear to live.” Rumi

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #631 on: August 10, 2024, 10:47:45 AM »
The sad march of death continues


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8erk37yn2no

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #632 on: August 19, 2024, 06:21:23 PM »
While I have an all too unstrange sense of deja vu, I can only hope that there is a positive outcome.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y3xzex72no

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #633 on: August 25, 2024, 12:56:24 PM »
Oh what a lovely not quite war.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjw398njqj4o

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #634 on: August 29, 2024, 01:14:41 PM »
The ceasefire looks a very distant prospect


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c5y8xkejjn3t

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #635 on: September 02, 2024, 09:43:55 AM »
Now a strike of the labour kind in Israel.


https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c75nekwkd4yt

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #636 on: September 03, 2024, 09:36:47 AM »
Guaranteed to annoy everyone?


https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cqjlpn9ddr9t

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #637 on: September 17, 2024, 05:17:17 PM »

SteveH

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #638 on: September 19, 2024, 03:26:36 PM »
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

Nearly Sane

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #640 on: September 21, 2024, 04:31:08 PM »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #641 on: September 22, 2024, 11:07:35 AM »
And getting bleaker. There seems to be a lacuna in the US's attention.


https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c1m955z0veyt

SteveH

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #642 on: September 22, 2024, 02:01:30 PM »
 >:(
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #643 on: October 01, 2024, 12:56:42 PM »
The drift to wider conflict quickens

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czxgyzq7z2ro

Nearly Sane

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Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #645 on: October 02, 2024, 09:29:00 AM »
I suppose there will be those who see this as supporting genocide. The problem with that lune of thinking is that it's impossible then not to end up in a black and white approach to the situation which is only grey.




https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2krlgekpxo

SteveH

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #646 on: October 02, 2024, 12:21:28 PM »
Maybe we should be strictly neutral, and let them fight it out among themselves.
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #647 on: October 02, 2024, 12:26:03 PM »
Maybe we should be strictly neutral, and let them fight it out among themselves.
Would that apply to Ukraine as well? If not, why not?

SteveH

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #648 on: October 02, 2024, 12:33:57 PM »
Would that apply to Ukraine as well? If not, why not?
Different situation. The right and wrong of the Ukraine war is much more clear-cut.
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Hamas attacks Israel.
« Reply #649 on: October 02, 2024, 12:40:03 PM »
Different situation. The right and wrong of the Ukraine war is much more clear-cut.
Surely that's just a matter of opinion? They're much more clear cut to you but there's a lot of people who would argue the other way.