Author Topic: UK election 2024  (Read 29178 times)

jeremyp

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #375 on: June 06, 2024, 02:13:23 PM »
And yet for tears Farage was the one clear voice on the subject because he could  not being attached to the Tory Party,
So what?

Quote
The part of the Tory Party that Cameron was trying to appease was emboldened by having the successes of UKIP, in particular in the 2014 EU elections, something that would not have happened without Farage.

Don't agree. The anti-EU section has been around and causing trouble since John Major's time as PM.

By any objective measure, Farage's political career has been an abject failure. His only success was being on the winning side in the Brexit vote.
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jeremyp

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #376 on: June 06, 2024, 02:15:21 PM »
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Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #377 on: June 06, 2024, 02:28:43 PM »
So what?

Don't agree. The anti-EU section has been around and causing trouble since John Major's time as PM.

By any objective measure, Farage's political career has been an abject failure. His only success was being on the winning side in the Brexit vote.
The only reason there was a Brexit vote is Farage. Had he not been leading UKIP, it wouldn't have had tge promi ence as an issue. That there were some Tories that wanted a vote would have been irrelevant without the 2014 EU elections. You're allowing your dislike for him to affect your estimate of what he achieved.

jeremyp

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #378 on: June 06, 2024, 02:37:04 PM »
The only reason there was a Brexit vote is Farage.
Nonsense
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Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #379 on: June 06, 2024, 02:40:15 PM »
I was in position of struggling to find somewhere to carry my vote at the start of the election campaign because some parties were too keen to give up women's sex based spaces, and some were too Tory but I'm finding that they are making a real effort to give me more reasons not to vote.

Following on from the news that the Tories had picketed another 5m from Frank Hester, Seema Malhotra on Poltics Live was desperately keen to say evil stories bur wouldn't answer the questions about the dodgy donation altogether the Labour FM in Wales.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c900138vek4o

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001zz1p/politics-live-06062024

And, I'm pretty sure that had the donations from Hester been 50,000 rather than 10M, it would have been handed back.

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #380 on: June 06, 2024, 04:52:59 PM »
Three Jobs Ross decides not to give one up as he had said he would.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9xxe8xe59eo
And in doing so got rid of sitting MP who had been sick but was just tossed out. What a sleekit wee prick Ross is.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2024, 07:46:31 AM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #381 on: June 06, 2024, 07:58:56 PM »
"Ed Davey praised for posting 'deeply moving' video caring for disabled son" - not sure how I feel about this. Outside of a general election  campaign, I think I'd be fine with it but something feels odd during the campaign
 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/lib-dem-leader-ed-davey-32973983

SteveH

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When politicians talk about making tough decisions, they mean tough for us, not for them.

SteveH

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #383 on: June 07, 2024, 07:10:49 AM »
In another no doubt doomed attempt to get this thread back on track...
Aditya Chakrabortty on Fartage.
When politicians talk about making tough decisions, they mean tough for us, not for them.

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #384 on: June 07, 2024, 07:15:24 AM »
In another no doubt doomed attempt to get this thread back on track...
Aditya Chakrabortty on Fartage.

Good article.


Note given the upsurge in the 'trans' posting, and widening of it, the mods are discussing how best to keep the issue within the purview of the election, where it is relevant, and not make it just a thread about the issue.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2024, 07:19:09 AM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #385 on: June 07, 2024, 07:32:38 AM »
Moderator Note we're going to separate put the 'trans' posts to a separate thread linked to the UK Election so that it can still be discussed with that as the context. While that's being done, the thread will be locked to make it feasible.

This has now been done the thread UK Election 2024 'trans' discussion is now available, and stickied for the rest of the election campaign, and this thread has been unlocked.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2024, 08:06:59 AM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #386 on: June 07, 2024, 08:28:23 AM »
Sunak apologises for leaving D Day Commemorations early to record interview to say he hadn't lied in debate, though he had.

Just wow! Who advised him to do that? Starmer?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2024, 08:48:09 AM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #387 on: June 07, 2024, 09:07:34 AM »
Deepfakes in the election. The Wes Streeting one discussed seems unlikely to move opinion. Perhaps Sunak should claim that the lying in the debate was a deep fake, and he actually attended all of the D Day Commemorations but was deep deepfaked  out.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg33x9jm02ko

SteveH

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #388 on: June 07, 2024, 10:11:29 AM »
Sunak apologises for leaving D Day Commemorations early to record interview to say he hadn't lied in debate, though he had.

Just wow! Who advised him to do that? Starmer?
He snubbed the D-Day veterans to lie about lying - two (or possibly three) gaffes at once. Not bad going, even for the gaffemeister.
When politicians talk about making tough decisions, they mean tough for us, not for them.

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #389 on: June 07, 2024, 10:20:06 AM »
He snubbed the D-Day veterans to lie about lying - two (or possibly three) gaffes at once. Not bad going, even for the gaffemeister.
Bet it will be all over Farage's literature.

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #390 on: June 07, 2024, 11:17:46 AM »
Bet it will be all over Farage's literature.
And I see the Labour line is that Sunak wants young people to do National Service but couldn't be bothered to stay at a service for veterans. Ooft. 

jeremyp

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #391 on: June 07, 2024, 11:52:34 AM »
My autocorrect keeps changing "Sunk" to "Sunk".

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SteveH

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #392 on: June 07, 2024, 12:02:33 PM »
My autocorrect keeps changing "Sunk" to "Sunk".
Does it change "Rishi" to "Risky"?
When politicians talk about making tough decisions, they mean tough for us, not for them.

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #393 on: June 07, 2024, 12:06:24 PM »
Chris Mason on Sunak's absence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4nnz0w41kvo

SteveH

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #394 on: June 07, 2024, 12:06:52 PM »
Slightly surprised that the Tories haven't yet (to my knowledge) played the race card, suggesting that criticism and mockery of Risky is due to prejudice against his Asian name and descent.
When politicians talk about making tough decisions, they mean tough for us, not for them.

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #395 on: June 07, 2024, 12:38:58 PM »
Slightly surprised that the Tories haven't yet (to my knowledge) played the race card, suggesting that criticism and mockery of Risky is due to prejudice against his Asian name and descent.
When you are scared of losing votes to Reform, it's a dodgy card.

Christine

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #396 on: June 07, 2024, 02:59:07 PM »
"Advisors"  :o

Sunak at the outsized podium in the rain was literally incredible. How inept is he? Makes me wonder if they're taking orders, not advice.

This isn't an original thought, but I can't remember where I heard it... The legislature should be selected at random from the qualifying citizenry, as with jury service. I'm vague on the details, but I expect I could come up with some (unless anyone has a killer argument why 650 random people wouldn't be an improvement on the shower we've got).


ProfessorDavey

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #397 on: June 07, 2024, 03:10:37 PM »
"Advisors"  :o

Sunak at the outsized podium in the rain was literally incredible. How inept is he? Makes me wonder if they're taking orders, not advice.

This isn't an original thought, but I can't remember where I heard it... The legislature should be selected at random from the qualifying citizenry, as with jury service. I'm vague on the details, but I expect I could come up with some (unless anyone has a killer argument why 650 random people wouldn't be an improvement on the shower we've got).
Well, it's an idea. But while there may be people willing to put their lives, careers etc on hold to spend a couple of weeks on jury service, somewhere fairly local to them, I think you'd find it exceptionally difficult to find people prepared to effectively up sticks to London for 5 years to be part of a legislature selected on jury-style basis.

And, sure there are plenty of useless MPs. But I really don't like this 'they are all the same, all as bad as each other' narrative. There are plenty of really hard-working and exceptionally effective MPs - and that is across all parties. But there is a difference between the job of a constituency MP and that of a minister and the government.

SteveH

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #398 on: June 07, 2024, 03:26:42 PM »
This isn't an original thought, but I can't remember where I heard it... The legislature should be selected at random from the qualifying citizenry, as with jury service. I'm vague on the details, but I expect I could come up with some (unless anyone has a killer argument why 650 random people wouldn't be an improvement on the shower we've got).
George Monbiot, in the Guardian the other day, is  probably where you heard it. It'll never happen, ad that's probably just as well.
When politicians talk about making tough decisions, they mean tough for us, not for them.

Nearly Sane

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Re: UK election 2024
« Reply #399 on: June 07, 2024, 03:27:52 PM »
Well, it's an idea. But while there may be people willing to put their lives, careers etc on hold to spend a couple of weeks on jury service, somewhere fairly local to them, I think you'd find it exceptionally difficult to find people prepared to effectively up sticks to London for 5 years to be part of a legislature selected on jury-style basis.

And, sure there are plenty of useless MPs. But I really don't like this 'they are all the same, all as bad as each other' narrative. There are plenty of really hard-working and exceptionally effective MPs - and that is across all parties. But there is a difference between the job of a constituency MP and that of a minister and the government.
There are many good MPs but much of what they do that is good isn't really seen. The gong show in the HoC seeks designed to make them look like idiots, though some make special contributions to that effect.


Those debates  when the House rises to the occasion, infrequent, and are often after cock ups by numerous executives- see the debate on the Horizon fuck up.


Add to that the various expenses issues, the subsidised pubs and restaurants in the HoC, the huge unwieldy patronage of the HoL, and the system looks indulgent and decrepit.


I'll be interested in the turnout at the election, current betting is that it will be below 64%, and I suspect many voting will vote with little enthusiasm, and often purely against certain parties, rather than for anyone. And, of course, FPTP had its own issues there.