Professor Rosaria Butterfield gives a powerful and brave speech to students.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

By being a homophobe

So does distaste for homosexuality make one a homophobe?

[Nearly Sane]

So does distaste for homosexuality make one a homophobe?

Thinking that Aruntraveller's relationship is not worthy of respect makes AB a homophobe.

[Spud]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI0zd47T3_8

Very helpful, thanks for posting this Alan.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Thinking that Aruntraveller's relationship is not worthy of respect makes AB a homophobe.

So distaste for homosexuality doesn't make one a homophobe?

[Nearly Sane]

So distaste for homosexuality doesn't make one a homophobe?

Please define what you mean by 'distaste'?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Please define what you mean by 'distaste'?

well perhaps starting with sexual practice since some Churches are often OK with Gay clergy as long as a gay isn't practicing. I think they have the same position on adulterers and fornication.

[Nearly Sane]

well perhaps starting with sexual practice since some Churches are often OK with Gay clergy as long as a gay isn't practicing. I think they have the same position on adulterers and fornication.

Sorry, that's not a definition of 'distaste'. Not sure what it is at all.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Sorry, that's not a definition of 'distaste'. Not sure what it is at all.

You are right since an individual, who may after all be an atheist homophobe has no power to exercise their disapproval by stopping a gay person doing anything career wise. By distaste of sexual practice I mean, if an individual wouldn't engage in the practice because of feeling or taste...does that make them homophobic?

[Nearly Sane]

You are right since an individual, who may after all be an atheist homophobe has no power to exercise their disapproval by stopping a gay person doing anything career wise. By distaste of sexual practice I mean, if an individual wouldn't engage in the practice because of feeling or taste...does that make them homophobic?

No.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

...By distaste of sexual practice I mean, if an individual wouldn't engage in the practice because of feeling or taste...does that make them homophobic?

No, but calling it a "sin" and "hating" it does.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

No, but calling it a "sin" and "hating" it does.

Hang on...Hate could be the very feeling that prevents someone from taking part in the sexual activities in question and the nature of the distaste, so perhaps you are contradicting yourself.

Sin of course is a theological issue. So are you saying here homophobia is bad enough, but when theists do it, it’s doubly bad?

I think though your evident conversion to absolute morality is a positive.

[jeremyp]

Sin of course is a theological issue. So are you saying here homophobia is bad enough, but when theists do it, it’s doubly bad?

No. I think the point is that Christians profess to believe in an all-loving god but the ones that are homophobic are exactly as bigoted as non Christian homophobes and also extremely hypocritical.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Hang on...Hate could be the very feeling that prevents someone from taking part in the sexual activities in question and the nature of the distaste, so perhaps you are contradicting yourself.

No. I have a distaste for beetroot too, but I don’t use my distaste to label those who indulge in the stuff “sinful” or “morally disordered” and then judge their behaviour accordingly.

Sin of course is a theological issue. So are you saying here homophobia is bad enough, but when theists do it, it’s doubly bad?

It’s contemptible in both cases, but the difference is the hypocrisy of, say, an AB persuading himself too that his hateful bigotry is the enactment of a loving god’s instructions and is therefore unarguable.

I think though your evident conversion to absolute morality is a positive.

I did no such thing.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

No. I think the point is that Christians profess to believe in an all-loving god but the ones that are homophobic are exactly as bigoted as non Christian homophobes and also extremely hypocritical.

To love everything leads to illogicality, so perhaps we should stear clear of the God of philosophical discussion.

I think then there is an antitheist's preferred God. The God of deranged swivel eyed wrath and a full biblical interpretation where God loves all people and hates whatever separates people from his love. What  that is, of course is something each individual has to work out themselves.

[SteveH]

So distaste for homosexuality doesn't make one a homophobe?

No, it doesn't. I find the idea of male homosexual sex distasteful (but not, curiously, lesbian sex), but I recognise that irrational gut reactions are no guide to morality, and am happy for men to love men, and women women. I also find the idea of eating raw eggs distasteful, but don't regard it as immoral.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

To love everything leads to illogicality, so perhaps we should stear clear of the God of philosophical discussion.

By “we” presumably you mean theists here as it’s their claim?

I think then there is an antitheist's preferred God.

Presumably because of your fondness for straw men?

The God of deranged swivel eyed wrath and a full biblical interpretation where God loves all people and hates whatever separates people from his love.

These are some of the claims theists make about “god”, yes. So what though?

What  that is, of course is something each individual has to work out themselves.

But only “individuals” who buy this god narrative. For the rest of us, there’s no more need to work this out for ourselves than there’s a need to work out for ourselves what Poseidon had for breakfast. 

[jeremyp]

To love everything leads to illogicality

Agreed, by the "all loving god" is not a straw man that I invented; it's something that Christians invented.

, so perhaps we should stear clear of the God of philosophical discussion.

But you love philosophical discussion, or t last you love using the jargon, even if you don't understand it.

I think then there is an antitheist's preferred God. The God of deranged swivel eyed wrath and a full biblical interpretation where God loves all people and hates whatever separates people from his love. What  that is, of course is something each individual has to work out themselves.

As I said, I didn't invent the all loving god, Christians did. That's why it is so hypocritical of some of them (note: I didn't ever claim all of you) to be so homophobic.

[jeremyp]

The God of deranged swivel eyed wrath and a full biblical interpretation where God loves all people and hates whatever separates people from his love.

Antitheists didn't invent that god either. It comes from the Bible which was written by theists.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Antitheists didn't invent that god either. It comes from the Bible which was written by theists.

No it comes from a bowdlerisation starting from the freethinkers, right up to the Noo atheists, fuelled by atheist urban mythmakers....IMHO.

[jeremyp]

No it comes from a bowdlerisation starting from the freethinkers, right up to the Noo atheists, fuelled by atheist urban mythmakers....IMHO.

Have you read any of the Old Testament? In it, the chief god wipes out almost all of humanity for being naughty. If that's not wrathful, what is?

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

No it comes from a bowdlerisation starting from the freethinkers, right up to the Noo atheists, fuelled by atheist urban mythmakers....IMHO.

Suggest you try actually reading the texts you deem to be "holy". They contain multiple (and often mutually contradictory) descriptions of "god". My experience of theists here and elsewhere is that the homophobes will select the homophobic bits as divine instruction, the nice ones will select the "Jesus meek and mild" bits and so on.

All that atheists do is to respond to these multiple god archetypes as they're presented – not make up our own.       

[Nearly Sane]

No it comes from a bowdlerisation starting from the freethinkers, right up to the Noo atheists, fuelled by atheist urban mythmakers....IMHO.

Think you are the one bowdlerising your holy book. You worship rape.

[Outrider]

Mother Theresa said " I see Christ in every human being"

But when she said 'Christ' she meant 'dollars'.

O.

[Outrider]

well perhaps starting with sexual practice since some Churches are often OK with Gay clergy as long as a gay isn't practicing. I think they have the same position on adulterers and fornication.

Which sexual practice can gay people do that straight people can't? I mean, I can think of one or two, but in the main the sexual practices of gay people are also the sexual practices of at least some straight people.

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Think you are the one bowdlerising your holy book. You worship rape.

So I worship the part i’m trying to ignore? stumbling over your own hysterical rhetoric perhaps?