UK- mental well being

[Sriram]

Hi everyone,

About mental well being rankings.  UK comes second worst globally. just ahead of Uzbekistan.

https://www.newsx.com/world/2nd-worst-in-global-mental-wellbeing-uk/


Cheers.

Sriram

[Aruntraveller]

I saw this yesterday somewhere.

I did wonder to myself is it just because we moan more?

More seriously, I don't know how you map this across different nations. I'd feel more convinced if I could find the methodology used. I've found the sample size which is more than adequate at about 5,000 per nation, but little else.

That we are less happy than some, and suffer more mental anxiety than some I will accept. I doubt, that we are truly next to bottom. Lower than Ukraine? I don't see it myself.

[SteveH]

I recall reading somewhere that Denmark is the world's happiest country. It is probably no coincidence that it has a strong, flourishing health service and welfare state.
Update - it's currently Finland, with Denmark second. My second sentence still applies.

[Nearly Sane]

I recall reading somewhere that Denmark is the world's happiest country. It is probably no coincidence that it has a strong, flourishing health service and welfare state.
Update - it's currently Finland, with Denmark second. My second sentence still applies.

According to the report Sriram is referring to the 'happiest' places are the Dominican Republic, Sri Lanka, and Tanzania.

[Nearly Sane]

I saw this yesterday somewhere.

I did wonder to myself is it just because we moan more?

More seriously, I don't know how you map this across different nations. I'd feel more convinced if I could find the methodology used. I've found the sample size which is more than adequate at about 5,000 per nation, but little else.

That we are less happy than some, and suffer more mental anxiety than some I will accept. I doubt, that we are truly next to bottom. Lower than Ukraine? I don't see it myself.

Yeah, I am somewhat sceptical of this. See Steve's post which have completely different 'happiest' nations.


This is a link to the site for the report Sriram's post refers to.


https://mentalstateoftheworld.report/

[Aruntraveller]

Thanks for that NS.

There seems to be a lot of reaching for reasons that worry me from a cause/correlation pov. on first reading. Will look at it more.

[Nearly Sane]

Here's a link to the details that Steve's referring to - in which the UK is 19th 'happiest'.


 https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world

[Nearly Sane]

To be fair both reports are lookjng at different things, so different results are to be expected but there is certainly a crossover in some of the measurements which makes the scale of the discrepancy notable.

[SteveH]

Thanks for that NS.

There seems to be a lot of reaching for reasons that worry me from a cause/correlation pov. on first reading. Will look at it more.

You can overdo the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" thing, you know. That the top few countries on my list are all wealthy liberal democracies with low crime rates and strong health and welfare provision* is probably not altogether a coincidence.
*and commensurately high taxation, but, contrary to what the Tories would have us believe, most people are willing to pay higher taxes provide they're not cripplingly high, they are applied fairly with the richest paying most, and they are spent on things that benefit everyone, such as a free universal health service, education, affordable housing, infracstructure, etc.

[Aruntraveller]

You can overdo the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" thing, you know. That the top few countries on my list are all wealthy liberal democracies with low crime rates and strong health and welfare provision* is probably not altogether a coincidence.
*and commensurately high taxation, but, contrary to what the Tories would have us believe, most people are willing to pay higher taxes provide they're not cripplingly high, they are applied fairly with the richest paying most, and they are spent on things that benefit everyone, such as a free universal health service, education, affordable housing, infracstructure, etc.

You sound like you are disagreeing with me when I was referring to Sririam's posting, not yours.

I didn't understand the fixation in the survey he posted about mobile phones, UHP foods and the breakdown of family relationships. It seemed to be based on some preconceived ideas about the West in general, and the preconception looks a bit cart before horse to me.

[Aruntraveller]

I have taken the survey that Sririam's posted and I am (apparently) mentally in a good position, but the questions it asks don't seem enough to establish their claims.

It asks about mobile phones and Ipads, but not about television and worktime. It's a bit slanted for me.

Also my perception, or indeed, anyone's, taken from a sliding scale that is open to interpretation by the user is not the most accurate of yardsticks.

[Nearly Sane]

You sound like you are disagreeing with me when I was referring to Sririam's posting, not yours.

I didn't understand the fixation in the survey he posted about mobile phones, UHP foods and the breakdown of family relationships. It seemed to be based on some preconceived ideas about the West in general, and the preconception looks a bit cart before horse to me.

I think that might be applicable to both reports.

Sriram's one though you might expect to be backed up by mental health figures from the countries themselves that would at least put the UK as a noticeable outlier from similar nations. Even that approach which would have a better scientific grounding, would be subject to significant questioning around definitions, methodologies of diagnosing mental.health issues, and access to such diagnosing.

[Sriram]

A culture of overt atheism and materialism could be at least partly responsible for the mental health problems....

[Aruntraveller]

A culture of overt atheism and materialism could be at least partly responsible for the mental health problems....

A culture of superstition and poverty could be at least partly responsible for the mental health problems....

[jeremyp]

A culture of overt atheism and materialism could be at least partly responsible for the mental health problems....

It could be. But "because it makes people happy" is not a good reason to believe there is a god.

[Sriram]

It could be. But "because it makes people happy" is not a good reason to believe there is a god.

It is not necessary to believe in a God, certainly not a old man with a white beard.   What is necessary is to believe in a purpose and meaning to life beyond the mundane life that we lead and which supposedly ends in final oblivion.

A purpose and direction to life is itself enough to provide a motivation to live on. Every struggle, every pain then has a meaning.

[Outrider]

A culture of overt atheism and materialism could be at least partly responsible for the mental health problems....

Rather unsurprisingly, the authors of the report didn't take that tack...

I think one of the elements that does an awful lot of heavy lifting is this little nugget from the description of the participants: "In countries like the United States where Internet penetration is >90%, the Global Mind data is closely representative of the general population and aligns with national census trends. However, this is not so for countries in Asia and Africa where the Internet-enabled population are typically a minority and generally represent higher socioeconomic groups or those who have achieved greater levels of education."

If there's any sort of correlation between wealth (even locally relative wealth) and mental health and wellbeing then this disparity is going to skew the figures, and the stronger that correlation is the more pronounced the effect of it will be.

O.

[jeremyp]

It is not necessary to believe in a God, certainly not a old man with a white beard.   What is necessary is to believe in a purpose and meaning to life beyond the mundane life that we lead and which supposedly ends in final oblivion.

Why don't you believe that atheists can have a purpose and a meaning to their lives?

[Outrider]

It is not necessary to believe in a God, certainly not a old man with a white beard.

We know.

What is necessary is to believe in a purpose and meaning to life beyond the mundane life that we lead and which supposedly ends in final oblivion.

In what way is that 'necessary'? Of course, perhaps if your life is that 'mundane' you do need to pin your hopes on something external to give you a reason to go on, I don't know. For me, my mechanistic, corporeal, conventional life is more than enough to give me reasons to go on.

A purpose and direction to life is itself enough to provide a motivation to live on. Every struggle, every pain then has a meaning.

Or, conversely, the struggles and the pains become easier to endure and/or ignore when you realise that they're not targetted at you, they're not deliberate, there is no 'point' to them - they merely 'are', and any more time you spend on them than is absolutely necessary is time wasted.

O.

[Enki]

It is not necessary to believe in a God, certainly not a old man with a white beard.   What is necessary is to believe in a purpose and meaning to life beyond the mundane life that we lead and which supposedly ends in final oblivion.

A purpose and direction to life is itself enough to provide a motivation to live on. Every struggle, every pain then has a meaning.

I don't have any belief in any God or indeed an afterlife, yet I have plenty of meaning and purpose to my life, even now at the age of 83. So I would  disagree with you.

[Sriram]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evidence-based-living/202308/spirituality-can-help-protect-mental-health

********

Nearly 70% of Americans identify with a specific religion, and another 25-to-30% consider themselves spiritual.

It turns out, that’s a good thing. A large and growing body of evidence demonstrates that spirituality is good for our mental health.

Miller describes research that distinguishes between spirituality and religion. Her research defines “religious” as identifying with an organized religion, such as Christianity, Islam, or Judaism. It identifies “spirituality” as feeling a direct connection to a higher power and recognizing this same connection or presence in others.

The take-home message: The evidence is mounting that spirituality – whether through organized religion or personal belief – is an important component of mental health.

********

[Aruntraveller]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evidence-based-living/202308/spirituality-can-help-protect-mental-health

********

Nearly 70% of Americans identify with a specific religion, and another 25-to-30% consider themselves spiritual.

It turns out, that’s a good thing. A large and growing body of evidence demonstrates that spirituality is good for our mental health.

Miller describes research that distinguishes between spirituality and religion. Her research defines “religious” as identifying with an organized religion, such as Christianity, Islam, or Judaism. It identifies “spirituality” as feeling a direct connection to a higher power and recognizing this same connection or presence in others.

The take-home message: The evidence is mounting that spirituality – whether through organized religion or personal belief – is an important component of mental health.

********

Of those 70% significant numbers vote for and believe in Trump as sent by God to save them.

Are you really sure it is good for their mental health?

[Outrider]

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evidence-based-living/202308/spirituality-can-help-protect-mental-health

********

Nearly 70% of Americans identify with a specific religion, and another 25-to-30% consider themselves spiritual.

It turns out, that’s a good thing. A large and growing body of evidence demonstrates that spirituality is good for our mental health.

Miller describes research that distinguishes between spirituality and religion. Her research defines “religious” as identifying with an organized religion, such as Christianity, Islam, or Judaism. It identifies “spirituality” as feeling a direct connection to a higher power and recognizing this same connection or presence in others.

The take-home message: The evidence is mounting that spirituality – whether through organized religion or personal belief – is an important component of mental health.

********

Given the treatment of the non-religious by the religious mainstream in America, it's hardly surprising that there is an increased level of mental health issues there.

"About one-quarter of U.S. adults report having a mental health diagnosis such as anxiety or depression or experiencing emotional distress. This is one of the highest rates among 11 high-income countries."

"The United States has some of the worst mental health–related outcomes, including the highest suicide rate and second-highest drug-related death rate."

"The U.S. has a relatively low supply of mental health workers, particularly psychologists and psychiatrists. Just one-third of U.S. primary care practices have mental health professionals on their team, compared to more than 90 percent in the Netherlands and Sweden."

(Source: - https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2020/may/mental-health-conditions-substance-use-comparing-us-other-countries)

Mental health correlates with religiosity/spirituality in the US, but the US is an outlier amongst developed countries (in MANY ways, including...) in its religiosity - it would be interesting to see if that correlation was clear in other comparable places.

Given America's overt and widespread religiosity/spirituality, if spirituality were any sort of defence against mental health problems we'd expect to see it performing better than comparable countries, but we don't. Therefore either the correlation identified is of weak effectiveness, it's a statistical anomaly or there are a vast range of factors to consider, of which spirituality is perhaps (but perhaps not) one.

O.