Author Topic: How logic alone may prove that time doesn’t exist  (Read 265 times)

Nearly Sane

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How logic alone may prove that time doesn’t exist
« on: May 23, 2024, 11:25:32 AM »
The thought experiment though seems to me based around there being time. Note, I also think there might be an issue with the idea of time 'existing' since it seems that existence is a time based concept rather than the other way around
 

https://theconversation.com/how-logic-alone-may-prove-that-time-doesnt-exist-227817

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: How logic alone may prove that time doesn’t exist
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2024, 01:17:16 PM »
The thought experiment though seems to me based around there being time. Note, I also think there might be an issue with the idea of time 'existing' since it seems that existence is a time based concept rather than the other way around
 

https://theconversation.com/how-logic-alone-may-prove-that-time-doesnt-exist-227817
I’m not sure existence is dependant on time in Conformal cyclic cosmology, aside from sounding dodgy in it’s own right.


Nearly Sane

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Re: How logic alone may prove that time doesn’t exist
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2024, 01:20:25 PM »
I’m not sure existence is dependant on time in Conformal cyclic cosmology, aside from sounding dodgy in it’s own right.
  Can you explain how you see existence as making sense with no concept of time, please?

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: How logic alone may prove that time doesn’t exist
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2024, 01:37:20 PM »
  Can you explain how you see existence as making sense with no concept of time, please?
I think there is a difference between being and coming into being and going out of being.
I think those proposing that time is an illusion are not saying the same of being.

I think that what many of those who oppose me on this forum are reaching for is eternal matter that never comes into being or goes out of being and is therefore something that is and never changes and is therefore not dependent on time.

I kind of grasp where you are coming from but can’t quite fix the idea. Why is a concept of time so important for you in order to contemplate being?

Nearly Sane

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Re: How logic alone may prove that time doesn’t exist
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2024, 01:46:43 PM »
I think there is a difference between being and coming into being and going out of being.
I think those proposing that time is an illusion are not saying the same of being.

I think that what many of those who oppose me on this forum are reaching for is eternal matter that never comes into being or goes out of being and is therefore something that is and never changes and is therefore not dependent on time.

I kind of grasp where you are coming from but can’t quite fix the idea. Why is a concept of time so important for you in order to contemplate being?
It's not 'important' to me. I just don't see how existence can be described without a concept of time. Nothing in your post even  begins to do that.

And I agree that something coming into existence, and stopping existence is different from when it exists but so what?

ETA 'Eternal' is defined in time based concepts so I don't understand why you think using it is useful here.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2024, 02:03:26 PM by Nearly Sane »

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: How logic alone may prove that time doesn’t exist
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2024, 02:06:57 PM »
It's not 'important' to me. I just don't see how existence can be described without a concept of time. Nothing in your post even  begins to do that.

And I agree that something coming into existence, and stopping existence is different from when it exists but so what?

ETA 'Eternal' is defined in time based concepts so O don't understand why you think using it is useful here.
No I think eternal can be thought of as uncreated, unchanging and unceasing. The conception of these has as much chance of being conveyed in a mere message bias post as your conception of existence dependent on time.

 You are certainly not conveying how change and being are inextricably linked, but then it might be too much to ask of anyone.

How are you conceiving time?

Nearly Sane

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Re: How logic alone may prove that time doesn’t exist
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2024, 02:16:59 PM »
No I think eternal can be thought of as uncreated, unchanging and unceasing. The conception of these has as much chance of being conveyed in a mere message bias post as your conception of existence dependent on time.

 You are certainly not conveying how change and being are inextricably linked, but then it might be too much to ask of anyone.

How are you conceiving time?
I haven't said anything about change because az fae as I can see in terms if existence it's not been shown to be relevant. You can make up whatever personal definition for eternal you like but how you measure not changing outside the concept of time. Even your introduction of not changing is based on time. Unceasing is also completely time based. As for 'uncreated' that seems irrelevant to whether existence can be conceived of as not time based. Ot's also not clear that an 'uncreated' thing would be eternal 

Still nothing at all from you on how existence as a concept exists without time.

As an aside, the OP, and my comments on it, were not made in any sense relating to ideas of 'uncaused causes' or anything similar. So most of what you are talking about is a derail.

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: How logic alone may prove that time doesn’t exist
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2024, 03:13:37 PM »
Good luck with your thread.