Pope allegedly used derogatory term for gay people

[Nearly Sane]

'When asked at the Italian Bishops’ Conference if gay men should now be allowed to train for the priesthood as long as they remained celibate, Pope Francis said they should not.'

Laughable on many levels


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpvvyxr79glo

[Aruntraveller]

They've not really got a handle on what some of their priests are, have they?

Or just in denial?

Or maybe going for plausible deniability?

[Nearly Sane]

They've not really got a handle on what some of their priests are, have they?

Or just in denial?

Or maybe going for plausible deniability?

Friend of mine, many years ago, was struggling to come to terms with being gay. He decided, as was and is not unknown, to become a priest. He got sent to Scots College in Rome, and on getting off the plane, realised there might be an issue, since his 'type' was Italian looking men.

A few weeks into his time there, he went to see his spiritual advisor, and managed to communicate something of the issue. The advisor said that they understand the problem from on a personal level, and gave the advice that at moments of temptation to walk barefoot on cold marble floors.

My friend is just about to retire from a long career in the NHS/Civil Service.

[Nearly Sane]

Well he's apologised for the slur but the discrimination, laughable as it is in terms of the facts, is still OK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czrrexn0094o

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Friend of mine, many years ago, was struggling to come to terms with being gay. He decided, as was and is not unknown, to become a priest. He got sent to Scots College in Rome, and on getting off the plane, realised there might be an issue, since his 'type' was Italian looking men.

A few weeks into his time there, he went to see his spiritual advisor, and managed to communicate something of the issue. The advisor said that they understand the problem from on a personal level, and gave the advice that at moments of temptation to walk barefoot on cold marble floors.

My friend is just about to retire from a long career in the NHS/Civil Service.

There is here though, also the question of celibacy, on which your friend would not be suitable for catholic priesthood.

[Nearly Sane]

There is here though, also the question of celibacy, on which your friend would not be suitable for catholic priesthood.

  No idea what point you are trying to make.

[SteveH]

There is here though, also the question of celibacy, on which your friend would not be suitable for catholic priesthood.

Why not? Gay men can be celibate too!

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Why not? Gay men can be celibate too!

Yes. I'm not a Roman Catholic but I think NS friend may have concluded that the celibate life was not for him.

I suppose some might conclude his friend was barred for being gay, but there was the question of celibacy as well.

I don't know, was this a running out of town of a gay person by swivel eyed clerics or a gentle "We're not sure whether you would be happy with this life" sort of thing...or something in between.

[Nearly Sane]

Yes. I'm not a Roman Catholic but I think NS friend may have concluded that the celibate life was not for him.

I suppose some might conclude his friend was barred for being gay, but there was the question of celibacy as well.

I don't know, was this a running out of town of a gay person by swivel eyed clerics or a gentle "We're not sure whether you would be happy with this life" sort of thing...or something in between.

I didn't say anything about him being barred for being gay. The Pope however does want to bar gay men from becoming priests. Which is both discrimination, and idiocy given the number of priests who are and were gay, including the spiritual advisor of my friend, as indicated by my post.

[Aruntraveller]

You are missing the point a bit though. The Pope has indicated that celibacy isn't the problem as far as gay men are concerned. It is the fact that they are gay men.

When asked at the Italian Bishops’ Conference if gay men should now be allowed to train for the priesthood as long as they remained celibate, Pope Francis said they should not.'

Which is, of course, all hypocritical nonsense given the number of gay priests in the RC.

[Alan Burns]

What surprises me in all this - as a Roman Catholic I understood that sexual orientation was irrelevant for priesthood as long as they remained celibate - so why was the question ever asked?

[Nearly Sane]

What surprises me in all this - as a Roman Catholic I understood that sexual orientation was irrelevant for priesthood as long as they remained celibate - so why was the question ever asked?

Does it matter when the Pope is disagreeing with you?

[SteveH]

Does it matter when the Pope is disagreeing with you?

I don't think Catholics are obliged to agree with everything the pope says; only with his ex cathedra statements.

[SteveH]

Worth mentioning that Cardinal Newman was gay by orientation, though certainly celibate, and he was canonised in 2019. Also Gerard Manley Hopkins.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't think Catholics are obliged to agree with everything the pope says; only with his ex cathedra statements.

I didn't say they were. And in this case, I agree with Alan. I don't think it was ever an issue, indeed, as per your examples it was 'understood'.

[Aruntraveller]

Evidence, as if it were needed, as to why the RC Church is in such a mess on this issue:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2995x14r85o

[Nearly Sane]

Evidence, as if it were needed, as to why the RC Church is in such a mess on this issue:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2995x14r85o

Wondering what Alan Burns thinks about his disagreement with the Pope, and this homophobia?

[Alan Burns]

Wondering what Alan Burns thinks about his disagreement with the Pope, and this homophobia?

I am not alone in being in disagreement with the Pope's recent communications on this.  There is deep concern throughout the RC church that the pope appears to be failing to endorse the biblical teachings on the sinful nature of homosexual behaviour (not to be confused with homosexual orientation).  The bible is quite clear that all sexual practice outside marriage is sinful - and the sacrament of marriage is between one man and one woman.  It is a very dangerous and slippery slope to start re interpreting the bible to fit in with modern popular culture.  Jesus was not influenced by popular opinion.

[Nearly Sane]

I am not alone in being in disagreement with the Pope's recent communications on this.  There is deep concern throughout the RC church that the pope appears to be failing to endorse the biblical teachings on the sinful nature of homosexual behaviour (not to be confused with homosexual orientation).  The bible is quite clear that all sexual practice outside marriage is sinful - and the sacrament of marriage is between one man and one woman.  It is a very dangerous and slippery slope to start re interpreting the bible to fit in with modern popular culture.  Jesus was not influenced by popular opinion.

And yet in saying that gay people can't become priests he appears to be even more homophobic than you in that regard.

[Harrowby Hall]

You are missing the point a bit though. The Pope has indicated that celibacy isn't the problem as far as gay men are concerned. It is the fact that they are gay men.

Which is, of course, all hypocritical nonsense given the number of gay priests in the RC.

I think that everyone in this discussion is missing the point.  When the Pope uses the term celibacy he means "unmarried". It is a feature of English usage that has resulted in the term being used to mean "avoidance of sex". The RC Church is very clear about the difference between celibacy and chastity - as are European languages.

[Nearly Sane]

I think that everyone in this discussion is missing the point.  When the Pope uses the term celibacy he means "unmarried". It is a feature of English usage that has resulted in the term being used to mean "avoidance of sex". The RC Church is very clear about the difference between celibacy and chastity - as are European languages.

That makes no sense contextually.  And language changes