Why do so many sports fans behave like complete idiots?

[Roses]

I have no interest in any sort of sport at all. My late father was a keen fan of football, formula 1 racing, cricket and tennis.   However, when the teams he supported won , he was very pleased but didn't behave in the way so many fans of sport do today, thank goodness!

[jeremyp]

I have no interest in any sort of sport at all. My late father was a keen fan of football, formula 1 racing, cricket and tennis.   However, when the teams he supported won , he was very pleased but didn't behave in the way so many fans of sport do today, thank goodness!

What sort of behaviour do you have in mind?

[ProfessorDavey]

I have no interest in any sort of sport at all.

Then perhaps that explains your lazy generalisation.

[Roses]

What sort of behaviour do you have in mind?

Yelling and screaming, cheering etc, YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ProfessorDavey]

Yelling and screaming, cheering etc, YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you don't want people supporting their team then - hmm, yep you really don't sport do you.

Down the years fans have supported their teams vociferously - when I was a kid fans still used football rattles, which made a bin rather louder than an individual fan might make. They were (quite rightly) banned on safety grounds, but I image being in amongst tens of thousands of fans in the Kop in the 1960s would have been as loud and raucous as it is today.

And that's a good thing - if you support a team you find the whole experience emotional, the highs and the lows, and you want to be part of the experience, not least because for a team having 50,000+ fans cheering you on will spurr you to greater performance.

[Nearly Sane]

Perhaps Roses just leans more to the Apollonian rather than the Dionysian?

[ProfessorDavey]

Perhaps Roses just leans more to the Apollonian rather than the Dionysian?

Or perhaps she is just not interested, as she clearly claims.

If you declare that you have no interest in sport (as she does) then why should anyone take any notice of your views on fans, who are of course an integral part of many sports.

[Nearly Sane]

Or perhaps she is just not interested, as she clearly claims.

If you declare that you have no interest in sport (as she does) then why should anyone take any notice of your views on fans, who are of course an integral part of many sports.

So if a football fan drunkenly pisses in her garden singing football chants, then she has no right to comment on their behaviour by your 'logic' 

[jeremyp]

Yelling and screaming, cheering etc, YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh dear. I do that a lot when watching sports, even though I am not particularly a sports fan.

I thought you were going to bring up hooliganism and drunkenness.

[Nearly Sane]

Oh dear. I do that a lot when watching sports, even though I am not particularly a sports fan.

I thought you were going to bring up hooliganism and drunkenness.

To be fair to Roses, she has often mentioned her issues with music, and I suspect the noise, as well as the lack of control associated with it may cause physical pain, as it might do to Maeght as well.

[jeremyp]

So if a football fan drunkenly pisses in her garden singing football chants, then she has no right to comment on their behaviour by your 'logic'

Obviously drunkenly pissing in somebody else's garden is beyond the pale, but Roses was complaining about "yelling and screaming, cheering etc". You could argue that inappropriate urination is covered by "etc", but I think it would be a stretch to generalise that to the majority of fans (unlike yelling, screaming and cheering).

[Nearly Sane]

Obviously drunkenly pissing in somebody else's garden is beyond the pale, but Roses was complaining about "yelling and screaming, cheering etc". You could argue that inappropriate urination is covered by "etc", but I think it would be a stretch to generalise that to the majority of fans (unlike yelling, screaming and cheering).

My point was about Prof D saying that since she takes no interest in sports there is no reason to take any interest in her view of fans. By that logic if a sports fan drunkenly pisses in her garden chanting away then there is no reason to take an interest in her opinion.

I don't see that one has to be interested in sport to have a valid opinion on sports fans.

[ProfessorDavey]

Obviously drunkenly pissing in somebody else's garden is beyond the pale, but Roses was complaining about "yelling and screaming, cheering etc". You could argue that inappropriate urination is covered by "etc", but I think it would be a stretch to generalise that to the majority of fans (unlike yelling, screaming and cheering).

Exactly - when Roses clarified what she didn't like in response to your question I read this to be what goes on inside the stadium, particularly as she compared it to how he supported sport 'back in the day'.

Sure urinating in someone's garden is appalling, but is just as likely to happen following a night out at the pub as a trip to the match.

[Nearly Sane]

Exactly - when Roses clarified what she didn't like in response to your question I read this to be what goes on inside the stadium, particularly as she compared it to how he supported sport 'back in the day'.

Sure urinating in someone's garden is appalling, but is just as likely to happen following a night out at the pub as a trip to the match.

And yet your point was that as someone not interested in sports she had no reason to comment on their behaviour and you placed no caveats on that.

[jeremyp]

My point was about Prof D saying that since she takes no interest in sports there is no reason to take any interest in her view of fans.

well, if you want to be pedantic, he actually asked a question.

By that logic if a sports fan drunkenly pisses in her garden chanting away then there is no reason to take an interest in her opinion.

That's a level more obnoxious than most fans' behaviour. It's clear that Roses has a problem with (or rather disapproves of) their normal behaviour, which normally takes place inside purpose built stadiums and other sports facilities.

I don't see that one has to be interested in sport to have a valid opinion on sports fans.

Nobody is suggesting Roses' opinion is not valid. PD is just asking why sports fans should care about it.

[Nearly Sane]

well, if you want to be pedantic, he actually asked a question.
That's a level more obnoxious than most fans' behaviour. It's clear that Roses has a problem with (or rather disapproves of) their normal behaviour, which normally takes place inside purpose built stadiums and other sports facilities.

Nobody is suggesting Roses' opinion is not valid. PD is just asking why sports fans should care about it.

And the clear suggestion is that her opinion is of no import because she isn't interested in sports no matter what the behaviour is. Prof D put no caveats on that in his rhetorical question.

[jeremyp]

A Youtube video documenting the interactions between fans ands cyclists

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQRFFlt2K0A

[Roses]

My son-in-law and family are football fans. But don't behaviour in the crazy way some of them do, even when watching their eldest play, who was selected by Man U and Liverpool, when much younger. He was a coach for while and is now at uni, studying sports journalism. I gather he is likely to be on TV in the not too distance future.

[jeremyp]

My son-in-law and family are football fans. But don't behaviour in the crazy way some of them do,

I'll bet you five of your English pounds that, when they are in a stadium watching their favourite football team playing, they do plenty of "yelling and screaming, cheering etc" - unless they are Spurs supports, in which case there will be little of the cheering.

On another note: when my nephew was at a private school, all the parents of boys in his year group got sent a letter once, following an away rugby fixture, because their behaviour was unacceptable.

[Nearly Sane]

I'll bet you five of your English pounds that, when they are in a stadium watching their favourite football team playing, they do plenty of "yelling and screaming, cheering etc" - unless they are Spurs supports, in which case there will be little of the cheering.

On another note: when my nephew was at a private school, all the parents of boys in his year group got sent a letter once, following an away rugby fixture, because their behaviour was unacceptable.

Maybe Roses's father was also a Spurs fan?

[Maeght]

To be fair to Roses, she has often mentioned her issues with music, and I suspect the noise, as well as the lack of control associated with it may cause physical pain, as it might do to Maeght as well.

I couldn't be in a situation where people were shouting and screaming but don't have any problem with people doing that generally - just not round me. I used to go to sporting events and watch games in pubs etc before my problems started. Sport means a lot to a lot of people and they want to express their pleasure or displeasure and why not int the right places and situations.

[Nearly Sane]

I couldn't be in a situation where people were shouting and screaming but don't have any problem with people doing that generally - just not round me. I used to go to sporting events and watch games in pubs etc before my problems started. Sport means a lot to a lot of people and they want to express their pleasure or displeasure and why not int the right places and situations.

it's interesting that you make clear that it changed so much for you. I do wonder if Roses pretty much always had a problem with noise, and so it's just normal for her to see the behaviour as problematic?

[Maeght]

it's interesting that you make clear that it changed so much for you. I do wonder if Roses pretty much always had a problem with noise, and so it's just normal for her to see the behaviour as problematic?

Could well be. It is easy to get annoyed/irritated about people making noise when you have problems with it but I try to accept that people are just doing normal things and it is me who needs to make adjustments. That may be because I used to do those things too.

[ProfessorDavey]

And yet your point was that as someone not interested in sports she had no reason to comment on their behaviour and you placed no caveats on that.

The caveats are based on Roses answer to JP's question in which she confirmed that she is talking about how fans support their team - singing, cheering etc etc. You've disappeared down your own rabbit hole of urinating in gardens. Not sure about you, but I don't believe I've ever know a football (or any other sports) fan indicate that the way they want to support their team is by urinating in some random person's garden.

[Roses]

Maybe Roses's father was also a Spurs fan?

Man U and Spurs.

I wouldn't call the behaviour of many of today's fans normal, I think it is pathetic, and could be dangerous too. Back in the day, like in 1966 for instance, when England managed to win, the fans were thrilled, but didn't carry on in the way they do today.