Author Topic: Who shot the former US president?  (Read 4042 times)

Spud

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Who shot the former US president?
« on: July 22, 2024, 08:28:13 PM »
Some are for sure but many are not, and they are putting up their version of events - not trying to find out what happened - in order to make money from it.
Yes indeed. To avoid trying to discuss this alongside the news about Biden, I thought we could have a separate thread. A lot of people think that for the secret service to allow it to happen, while being aware of a person with a gun on a nearby roof, is extremely suspicious. They want to know if there was another shooter, and they want evidence to eliminate that possibility, such as how many spent cases were found near the body of Crooks, indicating how many of the shots we hear on recordings were fired by him. How many shots were fired at him by snipers. Was it just the one which we know hit his forehead, or were there more?

Maeght

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2024, 09:25:03 PM »
Yes indeed. To avoid trying to discuss this alongside the news about Biden, I thought we could have a separate thread. A lot of people think that for the secret service to allow it to happen, while being aware of a person with a gun on a nearby roof, is extremely suspicious. They want to know if there was another shooter, and they want evidence to eliminate that possibility, such as how many spent cases were found near the body of Crooks, indicating how many of the shots we hear on recordings were fired by him. How many shots were fired at him by snipers. Was it just the one which we know hit his forehead, or were there more?

There is lots we don't know but speculating and filling the gaps is the problem. Such speculation is fuelled by people who make money on YouTube etc

Clearly the Secret Service protection failed but making the jump to say that that was deliberate is speculation with no supporting evidence. There should be a proper investigation to understand what happened but unqualified people trying to analyse events who have an agenda in many cases largely isn't helpful in regard to finding out the truth.

It is the modern way. A lot of people don't trust governments or the media (especially in the US), and there are on occasions reasons for that, but to then jump to there being dark forces organising everything behind the scenes is the stuff of conspiracy theories.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2024, 09:34:24 PM by Maeght »

Aruntraveller

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2024, 11:16:39 PM »
Before proceeding any further Spud, please read this:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psych-unseen/202005/everything-you-wanted-know-about-conspiracy-theories

If you haven't time for the whole thing, just read this:

Quote
I like to say that the term “conspiracy theorist” is something of a misnomer, because most people who believe in conspiracy theories aren’t theorizing. There’s coming from a place of mistrust, looking for answers, and finding them when they fall “down the rabbit hole” looking for explanations that differ from official accounts. In that sense, “conspiracy theorists” are really “conspiracy theists,” stumbling upon narratives that they find appealing that are boosted through confirmation bias.
Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

jeremyp

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2024, 10:52:21 AM »
Who shot the former US president?

Thomas Matthew Crooks

There is some question over the response of the security on the day, but I think the most likely cause is incompetence followed by (at a distant second) individuals in the service not being that enthusiastic about a second term for Tr*mp.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2024, 10:54:50 AM by jeremyp »
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Spud

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2024, 08:45:08 AM »
There is lots we don't know but speculating and filling the gaps is the problem. Such speculation is fuelled by people who make money on YouTube etc
Yes and I'm seeing a range of views about what happened, which annoyingly, conflict and make it very confusing. For example, Peak Prosperity showed crooks at the second the first shot was fired, and his shoulder doesn't move at all, even though the rifle has a significant kick.
But then when you look at where the people who were hit were located, they all seem to line up with Crooks, so that points to him being the shooter.
I find the MSM very biased. Readers are assumed to be anti Trump and pro Biden, anti Russia, pro evolution, and other things that I don't like to mention but a lot of people don't have those views or beliefs and independent journalism fills that vacuum. If people make a bit of money out of it, isn't that just the same as MSM? Obviously reader discretion is needed with both MSM and independent, to sift out facts from opinion.

ad_orientem

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2024, 09:17:24 AM »
MSM, by and large, is MSM for a reason.
Peace through superior firepower.
Do not believe anything until the Kremlin denies it.

Maeght

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2024, 10:42:10 AM »
Yes and I'm seeing a range of views about what happened, which annoyingly, conflict and make it very confusing. For example, Peak Prosperity showed crooks at the second the first shot was fired, and his shoulder doesn't move at all, even though the rifle has a significant kick.
But then when you look at where the people who were hit were located, they all seem to line up with Crooks, so that points to him being the shooter.
I find the MSM very biased. Readers are assumed to be anti Trump and pro Biden, anti Russia, pro evolution, and other things that I don't like to mention but a lot of people don't have those views or beliefs and independent journalism fills that vacuum. If people make a bit of money out of it, isn't that just the same as MSM? Obviously reader discretion is needed with both MSM and independent, to sift out facts from opinion.

You are always going to see a range of views and it is sensible to not take any source as 100% accurate and to make a judgement about the source.  Generally though the MSM has better resources to experts etc than some amateur investigator on YouTube or the like. (Not sure what 'pro evolution' has got to do with their ability to present the facts around this assassination attempt by the way). I haven't seen film of Crooks firing - can you post a link of that? This YouTube film is interesting and worth a watch if you are looking for balance in your analysis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLRKpMxtW6A&ab_channel=jeffostroff

Spud

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2024, 12:23:25 PM »
I haven't seen film of Crooks firing - can you post a link of that?
Sure, it's around the 23 minute mark here
He adds that the recording could have been tampered with.
If you play it at quarter speed you can see he doesn't move at all.

Maeght

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2024, 06:10:05 PM »
Sure, it's around the 23 minute mark here
He adds that the recording could have been tampered with.
If you play it at quarter speed you can see he doesn't move at all.

Thanks.

Spud

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2024, 10:25:20 AM »
Thanks.
Hi, I've got some more data.

There is a video made close to the American Glass building on which Crooks (if that is who it was - some think it was someone else) was found dead.

Trump can be heard speaking in the background. The guy filming became aware that something was up, and several seconds before the first loud shots were fired you can hear muffled shots being fired, one of which coincides exactly with a bullet passing visibly from right to left across the screen, if you slow it down to 0.25x playback speed. This bullet goes in the direction of Crooks, from the direction of the counter-snipers. Trump continues speaking for a few more seconds...

You can hear a few other similar suppressed shots being fired, before the first loud shot hits Trump. Altogether perhaps about a dozen, including ones that are heard during and after the loud shots.

John Cullen, who I think first noticed these shots, has done a lot of ballistics analysis on the video evidence that is in the public domain.

One thing he has spotted is that there appear to have been two shots fired simultaneously, one of which passes down the top aisle of the bleacher behind and to the left of Trump (his left), causing everyone in that aisle to flinch, and one person to fall over, and then hitting the railing. The trajectory of this bullet passes through the two counter-snipers on the roof of the left-hand building behind Trump (looking from in front of Trump). Obviously the snipers were facing the other way, so did not fire this shot - it must have been aimed at them from beyond where there is a wood.

So far then we have shots being fired from one or more suppressed rifles, which incidentally must have been subsonic because they lack a 'crack' sound. Also two shots fired at the same time from different locations: one directed at the snipers, the other hits Trump.

The other thing Cullen has noticed on the above video is rapid flashes coming from the window below where Crooks was lying. He believes the first three loud shots were fired from this window, not Crooks, based on the distance between the microphone near Trump and the rifle that fired the shot that hit him, as calculated from the 'crack-thump' heard on the audio. He assumes a speed of around 3000 feet per second for the bullet. The distance is exactly the same as that between Trump and the window in which the supposed muzzle flashes are seen, and about 30 feet less than the distance from Trump to Crooks on the roof.

What we can say is that there was a coordinated attack by at least two shooters in different locations, one possibly in the building below Crooks who hit Trump, and the other in the woods, who tried to take out a counter-sniper at the same instant.

Parts of Cullen's theory don't add up. One question is, was Crooks dead before the audible shooting started? For example was the subsonic bullet caught on camera from a counter-sniper? I'll try and find the original video so you can watch it; if not I'll link to it via a different YouTuber.

I've also seen several other bullets from video recordings.

« Last Edit: August 03, 2024, 10:31:41 AM by Spud »

Spud

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Maeght

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2024, 03:49:15 AM »

What we can say is that there was a coordinated attack by at least two shooters in different locations, one possibly in the building below Crooks who hit Trump, and the other in the woods, who tried to take out a counter-sniper at the same instant.


No we can't.

This is classic conspiracy stuff which crops up with every such incident. This will keep going for years and years sadly with more and more amateur analysis and attempts to fill gaps in our knowledge with conspiracy.

jeremyp

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2024, 11:28:15 AM »
one of which coincides exactly with a bullet passing visibly from right to left across the screen, if you slow it down to 0.25x playback speed.

Nope. This is how we can tell bullshit is just bullshit. Bullets from rifles travel at something like 1000m/s. If the video has a frame rate of 60 frames per second, the bullet would be visible in a maximum of one or two frames.
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Spud

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2024, 04:39:28 PM »
Nope. This is how we can tell bullshit is just bullshit. Bullets from rifles travel at something like 1000m/s. If the video has a frame rate of 60 frames per second, the bullet would be visible in a maximum of one or two frames.
The bullet is travelling slower than the speed of sound, as it's from a suppressed rifle (no crack). The clip is slowed down to 1/10 speed, so that's 6 frames per second visible, and the bullet is visible in two frames.

Spud

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2024, 05:04:38 PM »
Try viewing the original video at 0.25x playback speed. Suppressed shots started up to 18 seconds before the loud shots started.
4:37 first suppressed shot heard.
4:47 bullet passes across screen, suppressed shot heard. Trump continues speaking.
4:55 first three loud shots start. Trump stops speaking.
4:59 five more loud shots start.
5:04 flash at window and suppressed shot heard.
5:05 another flash at window.
Note that the same window is closed up until 5:02, then the camera pans down until 5:04, from which point it stays open.

https://youtu.be/28lxF9LONGk?si=_jgBxlCV6Tcd74xp

Spud

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2024, 05:13:05 PM »
One more thing, Cullen did a podcast with a US sniper instructor, Clay someone. When the first suppressed shot sounded, this guy immediately said, "Oh, ****, I know that sound like I know my child's voice - suppressed sniper fire".

Maeght

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2024, 05:14:55 PM »
Try viewing the original video at 0.25x playback speed. Suppressed shots started up to 18 seconds before the loud shots started.
4:37 first suppressed shot heard.
4:47 bullet passes across screen, suppressed shot heard. Trump continues speaking.
4:55 first three loud shots start. Trump stops speaking.
4:59 five more loud shots start.
5:04 flash at window and suppressed shot heard.
5:05 another flash at window.
Note that the same window is closed up until 5:02, then the camera pans down until 5:04, from which point it stays open.

https://youtu.be/28lxF9LONGk?si=_jgBxlCV6Tcd74xp

Where's Badge Man?

SteveH

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2024, 05:19:52 PM »
Try viewing the original video at 0.25x playback speed. Suppressed shots started up to 18 seconds before the loud shots started.
4:37 first suppressed shot heard.
4:47 bullet passes across screen, suppressed shot heard. Trump continues speaking.
4:55 first three loud shots start. Trump stops speaking.
4:59 five more loud shots start.
5:04 flash at window and suppressed shot heard.
5:05 another flash at window.
Note that the same window is closed up until 5:02, then the camera pans down until 5:04, from which point it stays open.
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

Spud

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Maeght

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SteveH

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I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

Maeght

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SteveH

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2024, 07:21:28 PM »
Yep, hence my comment about Badge Man.
Didn't know what you meant by that at first. Just googled.
I have a pet termite. His name is Clint. Clint eats wood.

Maeght

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Re: Who shot the former US president?
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2024, 07:23:40 PM »
Didn't know what you meant by that at first. Just googled.

No problem.  :)