Author Topic: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'  (Read 2485 times)

Nearly Sane

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Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« on: July 29, 2024, 02:34:43 PM »
In Southport. Whatever the details, it's already a tragedy.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cql8j2j0304o

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2024, 07:19:43 PM »
Two dead children, others in a critical state. Desperately sad.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2024, 08:50:07 AM »
This is horrific.

Isn't the major problem now to ascertain why so many people, including apparently a large number of male adolescents, appear to think that it is acceptable to carry bladed weapons?

Are they, like guns in the USA, being characterised as means of protection? If so, protection from what? And how can something which is manifestly offensive be perceived as giving protection?
Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2024, 09:23:04 AM »
This is horrific.

Isn't the major problem now to ascertain why so many people, including apparently a large number of male adolescents, appear to think that it is acceptable to carry bladed weapons?

Are they, like guns in the USA, being characterised as means of protection? If so, protection from what? And how can something which is manifestly offensive be perceived as giving protection?
I'm not sure this is that connected with general knife carrying but knives will be seen as protection from other knives. It's not a new problem but the knives seem to be bigger than the razors that once were the calling card of gangs in my own city of Glasgow.


It's difficult to gain perspective on problems which are often highlighted in the media by anomalous cases. I'm not sure that there is always something to be learned from such cases.



Roses

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2024, 10:35:30 AM »
So very tragic and terrible.  :o The 17 year old lad who carried out this stabbing will be another sick character to add to all the others who have tainted the UK with their evil crimes! >:(
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2024, 12:01:53 PM »
So very tragic and terrible.  :o The 17 year old lad who carried out this stabbing will be another sick character to add to all the others who have tainted the UK with their evil crimes! >:(
Not sure what you mean by 'tainted the UK'. Scarred would seem more appropriate to me.

jeremyp

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2024, 12:05:42 PM »

Are they, like guns in the USA, being characterised as means of protection? If so, protection from what? And how can something which is manifestly offensive be perceived as giving protection?

Guns in the USA are legal to carry. Knives in the UK are not, although, obviously they are easier to buy.
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2024, 01:23:23 PM »
Sadly, a third child has died.

Harrowby Hall

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2024, 03:24:24 PM »
Guns in the USA are legal to carry. Knives in the UK are not, although, obviously they are easier to buy.

Yes. I'm well aware of this, but I was trying to establish the nature of the perceptions of the peple who carry them for "defence". To me, the best defence against a knife would be something like a dustbin lid not another knife. But then, what sort of mentality would see 10-year old children as a danger?

Is it not time for a Royal Commission (or something) into the influences on behaviour of adolescents?

Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2024, 04:14:20 PM »
Yes. I'm well aware of this, but I was trying to establish the nature of the perceptions of the peple who carry them for "defence". To me, the best defence against a knife would be something like a dustbin lid not another knife. But then, what sort of mentality would see 10-year old children as a danger?

Is it not time for a Royal Commission (or something) into the influences on behaviour of adolescents?
Given the speed of such things, it's going to be way out of date as soon as it's written.

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2024, 10:33:02 PM »
And now violence against police. Sickening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2024, 03:39:56 AM »
And now violence against police. Sickening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cevwgqz0x41t
Social media has been, even by its standards, a dark scary place since the murders. Filled with frothing anger, channelled by many into hatred of Muslims with no reason or evidence, leading to the attacks on the mosque, and violence against police, with no real concern for the children attacked.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2024, 05:05:02 AM by Nearly Sane »

Roses

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2024, 10:47:49 AM »
As if those poor people in Southport haven't experienced one terrible trauma, last night a riot took place, which injured 39 police officers and damaged a mosque! It appears these anti- Muslim/anti-police evil protesters were looking for an excuse to riot and do harm and damage.  The person who committed the first terrible crime was not a Muslim! I hope everyone who took place in that riot is arrested and faces the full force of the law! >:(
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2024, 12:32:50 PM »
Lots of idiots of the racist part of the twitterati describing this thuggish criminality as taking back control and changing the narrative. Meanwhile Southport cleans up after the tragedy and this idiocy.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c3gr5ljyz41t

Roses

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2024, 02:52:45 PM »
Lots of idiots of the racist part of the twitterati describing this thuggish criminality as taking back control and changing the narrative. Meanwhile Southport cleans up after the tragedy and this idiocy.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c3gr5ljyz41t

I got rid of my Twitter account a while ago.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2024, 05:00:08 PM »
One of the few things about this story that can be read without it being deeply depressing. Jonathan Hayes is definitely a hero imo.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2g6eegyddo

Roses

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2024, 05:11:51 PM »
One of the few things about this story that can be read without it being deeply depressing. Jonathan Hayes is definitely a hero imo.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2g6eegyddo

I agree.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Aruntraveller

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Before we work on Artificial Intelligence shouldn't we address the problem of natural stupidity.

Roses

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2024, 06:35:59 PM »
The ghastly Farage stirring the pot - how unusual:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/31/farage-accused-of-inciting-southport-violence-by-former-counter-terror-chief

There are several people whom I would like to see take a one way trip to the far side of the universe, Farage being one of them.
"At the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them."

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2024, 08:19:47 AM »
More than 100 arrested in London after protests about the murders, and stabbings in Southport. I can't help thinking that were I the parent of a child murdered or injured in the attack that this would seem to be an insult. I get why people have inchoate anger thar is easily played upon by grifters stoking fears for profit and celebrity but struggle to understand why one would think that this was in any sense a fitting memorial.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ng1254ndeo

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2024, 09:33:54 AM »
I listen to the news on this, and see the rioting, read the comments on twitter about taking back 'our country', and feel the inchoate rage driving it. I hear Peter Finch as Howard Beale in Network screaming 'I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore'. I think the madness has grown since 1976. Times change ever quicker, increasing lack of certainty. The 1970s were characterised as the 'me decade', we now live in the 'who is me' 15 minutes.


The need to have a villain to hate has been abused many times in history by grifters, madmen, megalomaniacs, and now is no different. There's an episode of Buffy The Vampire Slayer where demons exploit the fictional murders of children to feed off the hatred caused by a witch hunt following those murders, and that plays in my head watching the manipulation that followed the tragic events in Southport.

The creation of the villains allows the mess of life, the dark depressing bits, to have some sense made of them. Hitler saw that and used it to indulge his own fuming hatred. Some just see a chance at celebrity, an opportunity to make their own small lives mean something. They tell stories of new world orders, and grand conspiracies which link everything since if you just join the dots you see the big picture that must be true. So the violence in Leeds, in Southend, and Manchester Airport, are all building to the murders of 3 girls at a Taylor Swift dance class. The shocking madness of what happened which is impossible to process is explained, and given meaning.


And my mind plays the imagined screams of those poor children.

« Last Edit: August 01, 2024, 04:57:02 PM by Nearly Sane »

jeremyp

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2024, 01:55:27 PM »
The seventeen year old suspect has been named.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p2yrg3pvpo

A judge has ruled that the circumstances are exceptional and the boy's anonymity was "allowing others up to mischief to continue to spread misinformation in a vacuum".
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Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2024, 03:11:00 PM »
'Violent Southport protests reveal organising tactics of the far-right' - hmmm, I'm not sure that 'far right' is that useful a label, and part of the article echoes that. The people protesting are just angry about most things, and I think it creates its own problems in connecting that with the label 'far right'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cl4y0453nv5o
« Last Edit: August 02, 2024, 03:24:37 PM by Nearly Sane »

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2024, 01:11:15 AM »
'Violent Southport protests reveal organising tactics of the far-right' - hmmm, I'm not sure that 'far right' is that useful a label, and part of the article echoes that. The people protesting are just angry about most things, and I think it creates its own problems in connecting that with the label 'far right'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cl4y0453nv5o
And with clashes in Bolton involving a large group of Muslim rioters, the problem of concentrating on a group that you call the far right rather than condemning the behaviours becomes apparent.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cervv8rz8mzo

Nearly Sane

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Re: Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2024, 11:26:28 AM »
I struggle to know what action is appropriate for those who tell deliberate lies as we're told here in social media, and then what for anyone who spreads the misinformation even if in part without thinking. Lots of people calling for arrests but it is not an easy balance.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cv2ggn0x802o