Eight stabbed and man held in 'major incident'

[Aruntraveller]

I see Mr Musk is doing his best to calm the situation:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-slams-elon-musks-claims-civil-war-is-inevitable-in-uk-amid-far-right-riots_uk_66b0b575e4b0781f9246bbf4

[Roses]

I see Mr Musk is doing his best to calm the situation:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-slams-elon-musks-claims-civil-war-is-inevitable-in-uk-amid-far-right-riots_uk_66b0b575e4b0781f9246bbf4

What an evil man Musk is, I used to post on Twitter, but closed my account a few months ago and will never post on it again whilst Musk is the owner of it.

[ad_orientem]

I see Mr Musk is doing his best to calm the situation:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-slams-elon-musks-claims-civil-war-is-inevitable-in-uk-amid-far-right-riots_uk_66b0b575e4b0781f9246bbf4

Wouldn't expect anything less from Apartheid Clyde. He's pushing all the far right narratives. He should have his security clearance cancelled. The US should deport this Afrikaner scam artist.

[Nearly Sane]

'So, Home Secretary, what do you want for dinner tonight?'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2ggw5r067o

[Nearly Sane]

A pretty positive report from Mark Easton which feels needed after some of the madness

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czx66dkx3wlo

[Aruntraveller]

...

[Nearly Sane]

The ongoing Starmer v Musk spat. Perhaps like the Zuckerberg v Musk one, a cage fight might be proposed.


That the Online Safety Act might not be fully implemented till 2026 underlines that it's like Wile E Coyote trying to catch Roadrunner.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5ydddy3qzgo

[jeremyp]

I see Mr Musk is doing his best to calm the situation:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-slams-elon-musks-claims-civil-war-is-inevitable-in-uk-amid-far-right-riots_uk_66b0b575e4b0781f9246bbf4

He's an ignorant buffoon.

[Nearly Sane]

Small bit of good news, all the surviving children from the murders and assaults are now out of hospital.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7033y4yxdyo

[Nearly Sane]

First sentencing.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy8497l7dx8t

[Nearly Sane]

Apparently the 'rumoured far right protests' didn't happen because of a lot of police, which didn't stop anti far right protests, and the first sentences handed out. Feels like bollocks to me as it over estimates the organisation involved so far, and the impact and speed of impact of sentencing. Also plays down 'rumoured'.

[ProfessorDavey]

Apparently the 'rumoured far right protests' didn't happen because of a lot of police, which didn't stop anti far right protests, and the first sentences handed out. Feels like bollocks to me as it over estimates the organisation involved so far, and the impact and speed of impact of sentencing. Also plays down 'rumoured'.

I don't think this is bollocks at all.

The counter protests were always planned to be peaceful (unlike the far right riots) and hence while there was greater police presence why would this deter a peaceful gathering on the streets? A mob of extremists bent on voilence ... hmm ... well that's another matter. And I think the conviction and sentencing will have filtered down to those planning violence and given them serious pause for thought.

And of course finally - on the early nights the rioters had the streets to themselves to casue mayhem - now they'd face not just the police but counter demonstrations which would dwarf them in numbers.

Is this over? - well I hope so but this weekend will be key. The weather is expected to be dry and warm which isn't good - but let's hope that the threat of rapidly ending up with a long jail sentence will be enough to persuade the idiots that attacking mosques and lawyers offices isn't a smart thing to do.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't think this is bollocks at all.

The counter protests were always planned to be peaceful (unlike the far right riots) and hence while there was greater police presence why would this deter a peaceful gathering on the streets? A mob of extremists bent on voilence ... hmm ... well that's another matter. And I think the conviction and sentencing will have filtered down to those planning violence and given them serious pause for thought.

And of course finally - on the early nights the rioters had the streets to themselves to casue mayhem - now they'd face not just the police but counter demonstrations which would dwarf them in numbers.

Is this over? - well I hope so but this weekend will be key. The weather is expected to be dry and warm which isn't good - but let's hope that the threat of rapidly ending up with a long jail sentence will be enough to persuade the idiots that attacking mosques and lawyers offices isn't a smart thing to do.

Again, I think this overestimates the organisation of the violence, not least because it gives them the hindsight of the various counter protests, not all of which were non violent.

[Nearly Sane]

Again, I think this overestimates the organisation of the violence, not least because it gives them the hindsight of the various counter protests, not all of which were non violent.

There is also some ludicrous stuff being touted by some of the social mediocrities that it was an immensely cunning plan of the twats to take up police time, and not do anything. Both sides are overestimating the organisation of a bunch of thugs for their own reasons.

[ProfessorDavey]

Again, I think this overestimates the organisation of the violence, not least because it gives them the hindsight of the various counter protests, not all of which were non violent.

I think 'organisation' is a very different thing on today's social media world than it once was. I think it is pretty clear that many of those involved in the riots (and indeed the counter protests) weren't local and therefore there must have been a level of organisation that informed them when and where to turn up to be involved. And given that the riots and protests have occurred up and down the country, far, far away from the site of the triggere event in Southport, then that suggests to me a level of coordination and organisation. Not via a recognised group perhaps, but then that isn't necessary anymore - all you need is a significant like minded online community.

[ProfessorDavey]

... various counter protests, not all of which were non violent.

We are discussing why the 'rumoured far right protests' didn't happen last night (your words) and one of the reasons I think is the magnitude of the counter demonstrations last night. Are you saying that there was violence during those counter demonstrations last night - I've not seen any reports of violence from last night's events.

[Nearly Sane]

I think 'organisation' is a very different thing on today's social media world than it once was. I think it is pretty clear that many of those involved in the riots (and indeed the counter protests) weren't local and therefore there must have been a level of organisation that informed them when and where to turn up to be involved. And given that the riots and protests have occurred up and down the country, far, far away from the site of the triggere event in Southport, then that suggests to me a level of coordination and organisation. Not via a recognised group perhaps, but then that isn't necessary anymore - all you need is a significant like minded online community.

It is different but that doesn't mean you're not overestimating the organisation of a bunch of drunk thugs.

[Nearly Sane]

We are discussing why the 'rumoured far right protests' didn't happen last night (your words) and one of the reasons I think is the magnitude of the counter demonstrations last night. Are you saying that there was violence during those counter demonstrations last night - I've not seen any reports of violence from last night's events.

I had seen reports of violence in Croydon but that appears to have just been actual drunk thugs rather than protesting drunk thogs, so scrub that part of previous post.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/10-arrested-in-croydon-as-group-throw-bottles-and-emergency-worker-attacked-in-pure-anti-social-behaviour/ar-AA1or2lI

[The Accountant, OBE, KC]

I think 'organisation' is a very different thing on today's social media world than it once was. I think it is pretty clear that many of those involved in the riots (and indeed the counter protests) weren't local and therefore there must have been a level of organisation that informed them when and where to turn up to be involved. And given that the riots and protests have occurred up and down the country, far, far away from the site of the triggere event in Southport, then that suggests to me a level of coordination and organisation. Not via a recognised group perhaps, but then that isn't necessary anymore - all you need is a significant like minded online community.

I would agree with you - phones belonging to young men were pinging at the gym yesterday and day before - they were receiving messages about how to be prepared and where to be in order to deal with potential violence on the streets from rioters and protecting the neighbourhood community / shops and where to show up for counter-demos etc. So to that extent there was organisation and mobilisation.

Meanwhile business owners were contacting their insurance companies to find out if they were covered for riot damage.

[ProfessorDavey]

I had seen reports of violence in Croydon but that appears to have just been actual drunk thugs rather than protesting drunk thogs, so scrub that part of previous post.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/10-arrested-in-croydon-as-group-throw-bottles-and-emergency-worker-attacked-in-pure-anti-social-behaviour/ar-AA1or2lI

Err - so do you actaully have a point NS - note:

"The force said the arrests were not related to any protests, ..."

[ProfessorDavey]

It is different but that doesn't mean you're not overestimating the organisation of a bunch of drunk thugs.

FFS NS - wake up. This isn't a bunch of people stumbling out of a pub at closing time pissed and having a fight or deciding on the spur of the moment to put a brick through the window of a a building across the road which just happened to be a mosque or the office of an immigration laywer.

Nope this is way more organised. Derek Drummond, who was sentenced to 3 years yesterday is from Liverpool. He decided to travel to Southport, some 20 miles away to take part in the distubances. That was both a deliberate decision on his part and was presumably triggered by information about planned disturbances and (likely) false information about the nature of the Southport attacker.

He didn't stumble out of a pub close to home and by some time-warp find himself in Southport confronting the police.

You are worryingly underestimating the levels of organisational ability that can be achieved via social media through groups of like minded people. Think flash-mob intent on violence, not drunken pissheads stumbling out of a pub.

[Nearly Sane]

Err - so do you actaully have a point NS - note:

"The force said the arrests were not related to any protests, ..."

Yes, that's what I said in the post you've just replied to, and where I say to scrub the bit in my previous post.

[Nearly Sane]

FFS NS - wake up. This isn't a bunch of people stumbling out of a pub at closing time pissed and having a fight or deciding on the spur of the moment to put a brick through the window of a a building across the road which just happened to be a mosque or the office of an immigration laywer.

Nope this is way more organised. Derek Drummond, who was sentenced to 3 years yesterday is from Liverpool. He decided to travel to Southport, some 20 miles away to take part in the distubances. That was both a deliberate decision on his part and was presumably triggered by information about planned disturbances and (likely) false information about the nature of the Southport attacker.

He didn't stumble out of a pub close to home and by some time-warp find himself in Southport confronting the police.

You are worryingly underestimating the levels of organisational ability that can be achieved via social media through groups of like minded people. Think flash-mob intent on violence, not drunken pissheads stumbling out of a pub.

This is the same type of villain creation that the racist numpties indulge in thinking there is some great WEF plan that's about getting rid of white people. That some eejot can get on a train to be a violent thug does not mean that it was a hugely organised set of violence.

[ProfessorDavey]

I would agree with you - phones belonging to young men were pinging at the gym yesterday and day before - they were receiving messages about how to be prepared and where to be in order to deal with potential violence on the streets from rioters and protecting the neighbourhood community / shops and where to show up for counter-demos etc. So to that extent there was organisation and mobilisation.

Meanwhile business owners were contacting their insurance companies to find out if they were covered for riot damage.

Spot on - and the levels of organisation tend to be more 'organic' rather than associated with some formal 'organisation' but that doesn't make it any less effective. The combination of like minded people living within a social media echo chamber with 'influencers' amplifying messages that may (or may not) be entirely false along with someone simply providing information about a place is sufficient to generate a crowd at that place who may well be bent on violence.

It doesn't actually need someone to be as overt as saying let's burn down a mosque or immigration accommodation (and I suspect those manipulating the organisation would be smart enough to avoid this), merely to point out to their social media community that this hotel or that hotel in their local vicinity (and that may be tens of miles away) is housing asylum seekers. The rest is nod and wink stuff.

[ProfessorDavey]

This is the same type of villain creation that the racist numpties indulge in thinking there is some great WEF plan that's about getting rid of white people. That some eejot can get on a train to be a violent thug does not mean that it was a hugely organised set of violence.

So if there is no 'organisation' who was releasing details of immigration lawyers to their online communities yesterday. Who was falsely reporting - and re-posting - incorrect claims that the Southport attacker was a muslim asylum seeker who'd arrived on a boat last year.

Poeple don't randomly decide to travel 20 miles on the offchance there might be a protest or a demonstration - nope they travel there because they know when and where those protests will be taking place. And that only happens with a level of organisation.