One for the conspiracy theorists

[Nearly Sane]

And with the yacht being called Bayesian, one for the geeky ones.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy3el37z4po

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74jzd22dkno

[Maeght]

And with the yacht being called Bayesian, one for the geeky ones.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy3el37z4po

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c74jzd22dkno

Yeah, was thinking the same.

[SteveH]

One dead and one missing and probably dead does look a bit suspicious, but since the yacht sank in a strom, it's difficult too see how that could have been arranged.

[Nearly Sane]

One dead and one missing and probably dead does look a bit suspicious, but since the yacht sank in a strom, it's difficult too see how that could have been arranged.

Piece of cake in comparison to 9/11 though

[jeremyp]

Piece of cake in comparison to 9/11 though

Not sure bout that. Hijacking three planes is pretty straight forward compared to creating and controlling a storm capable of sinking a 183 foot boat.

[Nearly Sane]

Not sure bout that. Hijacking three planes is pretty straight forward compared to creating and controlling a storm capable of sinking a 183 foot boat.

I was meaning 9/11 as a conspiracy

[ProfessorDavey]

News at ten last night had the yacht sinking story as their top story, with pretty much half of the programme on the story.

While this is undoubtedly a tragedy for those directly involved/affected the BBC coverage seems way over the top. While some of those likely to have died were prominent people in their business worlds I doubt most people would have heard of them before the story broke. It does feel like 'elite privilege' in news coverage terms (bit like pretty privilege) - whereby if you are part of the elite and you die you will get huge media coverage, regardless of whether you have any meaningful public profile or whether the death will have any meaningful impact on those beyond family and associates. A story involving the tragic death in an accident of non elites would get far less coverage - certainly not top billing over more than one daily news cycle.

[Maeght]

News at ten last night had the yacht sinking story as their top story, with pretty much half of the programme on the story.

While this is undoubtedly a tragedy for those directly involved/affected the BBC coverage seems way over the top. While some of those likely to have died were prominent people in their business worlds I doubt most people would have heard of them before the story broke. It does feel like 'elite privilege' in news coverage terms (bit like pretty privilege) - whereby if you are part of the elite and you die you will get huge media coverage, regardless of whether you have any meaningful public profile or whether the death will have any meaningful impact on those beyond family and associates. A story involving the tragic death in an accident of non elites would get far less coverage - certainly not top billing over more than one daily news cycle.

Does seem rather OTT.

[Nearly Sane]

News at ten last night had the yacht sinking story as their top story, with pretty much half of the programme on the story.

While this is undoubtedly a tragedy for those directly involved/affected the BBC coverage seems way over the top. While some of those likely to have died were prominent people in their business worlds I doubt most people would have heard of them before the story broke. It does feel like 'elite privilege' in news coverage terms (bit like pretty privilege) - whereby if you are part of the elite and you die you will get huge media coverage, regardless of whether you have any meaningful public profile or whether the death will have any meaningful impact on those beyond family and associates. A story involving the tragic death in an accident of non elites would get far less coverage - certainly not top billing over more than one daily news cycle.

The coverage is excessive but I'm not convinced that coverage of the death in this way is much in the way of a 'privilege', rather there's a dark side to the idea of elite and celebrity where the significance is a fascination that is unhealthy for all involved including the 'elite'. At a time when most people, including the family and friends involved, would be struggling to deal with it and want privacy, that's not what we give them.

[ProfessorDavey]

The coverage is excessive but I'm not convinced that coverage of the death in this way is much in the way of a 'privilege', rather there's a dark side to the idea of elite and celebrity where the significance is a fascination that is unhealthy for all involved including the 'elite'.

I don't see it that way at all.

Sure there are plenty of examples where the excessive media obsession with celebrities in life shifts into a mawkish fascination when a celebrity meets an untimely death.

But these people aren't celebrities and as I've suggested I think most people would never have even heard of them until a couple of days ago, let alone following their every moves in life. No these folk are elites not celebrities and I think there is a media 'elite privilege' whereby a story involving an elite is deemed more newsworthy (regardless of whether the general public have ever heard of them before) compared to non-elites where there is a tragedy.

At a time when most people, including the family and friends involved, would be struggling to deal with it and want privacy, that's not what we give them.

That's not how I've seen the coverage at all. Let's remember that there is an ongoing recovery operation happening - we aren't onto the 'leave them alone' stage yet. But even so the media coverage has 'left them alone' - indeed in the BBC coverage last night there was no picture of the 18 year old daughter (would that have happened for non elites) and the only comment from a family member was from the brother of the Morgan Stanley guy ... and err ... a friend of the chef (a non elite). The coverage seems to have very carefully avoided sticking a microphone in front of survivors or their families. Again I'm not convinced that would have been the case for non-elites.

 

[ProfessorDavey]

The story remains the number 1 news item on the BBC website - with a 'Live' tag, typically reserved for super-important stories which are fast moving.

[Maeght]

Top story on Sky News website too.

[Nearly Sane]

I don't see it that way at all.

Sure there are plenty of examples where the excessive media obsession with celebrities in life shifts into a mawkish fascination when a celebrity meets an untimely death.

But these people aren't celebrities and as I've suggested I think most people would never have even heard of them until a couple of days ago, let alone following their every moves in life. No these folk are elites not celebrities and I think there is a media 'elite privilege' whereby a story involving an elite is deemed more newsworthy (regardless of whether the general public have ever heard of them before) compared to non-elites where there is a tragedy.
That's not how I've seen the coverage at all. Let's remember that there is an ongoing recovery operation happening - we aren't onto the 'leave them alone' stage yet. But even so the media coverage has 'left them alone' - indeed in the BBC coverage last night there was no picture of the 18 year old daughter (would that have happened for non elites) and the only comment from a family member was from the brother of the Morgan Stanley guy ... and err ... a friend of the chef (a non elite). The coverage seems to have very carefully avoided sticking a microphone in front of survivors or their families. Again I'm not convinced that would have been the case for non-elites.

I'm not saying it would have happened with 'non elites', I'm saying I don't see it as a privilege, more prurience.

[ProfessorDavey]

I'm not saying it would have happened with 'non elites', I'm saying I don't see it as a privilege, more prurience.

I've used the term 'privilege' here as analogous to the well known concept of 'pretty privilege', which in media terms manifests as those who are deemed more attractive are considered more important, newsworthy, believable and deserving of our understanding/sympathy. We see this most often in murder cases.

[Nearly Sane]

I've used the term 'privilege' here as analogous to the well known concept of 'pretty privilege', which in media terms manifests as those who are deemed more attractive are considered more important and newsworthy. We see this most often in murder cases.

And I'm pointing out that being more noteworthy isn't a privilege and using the term is simplistic.


Given the huge coverage, what elite did Jay Slater belong to?

[ProfessorDavey]

Given the huge coverage, what elite did Jay Slater belong to?

I don't remember the Jay Slater case being the top news story on the BBC three days running - and even then it was a 'live' story, in that there was a rescue operation (i.e. there was a chance he'd be found alive) rather than a recovery operation.

And actually I don't believe that his case would have had anything like the media coverage it did had it not come hot on the heals of Michael Mosley's death, which had many similar characteristics.

[ProfessorDavey]

And I'm pointing out that being more noteworthy isn't a privilege and using the term is simplistic.

Do you understand the concept of 'pretty privilege' and particularly as it applies to media coverage?

[Nearly Sane]

Do you understand the concept of 'pretty privilege' and particularly as it applies to media coverage?

Yes, I'm disagreeing with it because the naming of it as privilege simplifies something that isn't as pretty as that name. The complex reasons things become 'cause celébrès' like this are as much to do with ugliness of our interests, anything else.

The Slater case may have been influenced by the Mosley case but it was the confused and slightly seedy story surrounding the disappearance that I suggest stoked up the interest.

In this case Lynch went through an extraordinary legal case with relatively little coverage because legal cases are generally very very boring. The sinking has drama, a bit of glamour, and with the death of Chamberlain, that special cachet that conspiracy gives. We like hearing about rescue attempts, even when it's not the 'elite', think the Chilean miners, and the Thai boys in the cave. Sadly I suspect we like news of doomed rescues more than ones likely to be successful.

Putting this down to 'elite privilege' seems to me to miss out on the complexity of what drives the interest in these timebound, discrete news events. Calling it 'privilege' at all here, where it seems as likely, that there will be no more rescues, seems motivated by unjustified jealousy.

[ProfessorDavey]

The Slater case may have been influenced by the Mosley case but it was the confused and slightly seedy story surrounding the disappearance that I suggest stoked up the interest.

Now it is impossible to know for sure, but I doubt that the Slater case (missing person on holiday island) would have got further than the local news items had it not been for Mosley.

[Nearly Sane]

Now it is impossible to know for sure, but I doubt that the Slater case (missing person on holiday island) would have got further than the local news items had it not been for Mosley.

And I doubt that it would have been anything other than a footnote to the Mosley case had it not had the aspects that I've raised.

Earlier you specified a difference between celebrity and elite here, but surely Mosley was a celebrity rather than elite, difficult to tell what elite is, and yet you're using that as analogous.

[ProfessorDavey]

Earlier you specified a difference between celebrity and elite here, but surely Mosley was a celebrity rather than elite, difficult to tell what elite is, and yet you're using that as analogous.

I don't think the concept of a celebrity and an elite is trick.

So to me, a 'celebrity' is someone with a public profile amongst the general population, or a significant sub-set of that population. And I would add that maintaining that public profile would be important to that person either for personal reasons or to fulfil their role.

An elite on the other hand is someone in a position with considerable power and influence. In most cases elites would have access to significant wealth, either through their position or independently (e.g. investments, inheritance etc). Another key feature of elites would be access to, and the ability to maintain and use, a network of other elites for mutual benefit.

Some people will be both celebrities and elites (the Royals being good examples), but there will be others who may be one or the other. Of course most people are neither.

Mosley was definitely a celebrity - less clear whether he was an elite. Lynch, Bloomer and probably Morvillo were elites but weren't celebrities.

[jeremyp]

I was meaning 9/11 as a conspiracy

9/11 was a conspiracy.

It was a conspiracy of Islamist terrorists to murder lots of Americans and it worked.

Some people claim it was a conspiracy by some other group, for example, the US government, but even so, fundamentally, it just required crashing planes into buildings and perhaps pre-planted explosives (if you're into the really wild ones) but none of this compares to controlling the weather which is what this yacht conspiracy would require.

[Spud]

There was a theory that the bad weather that caused the plane crash that killed the Iranian president was manipulated somehow.

[ad_orientem]

Is it a rule that if you believe in one conspiracy theory, you've got to believe the whole bloody lot of them?

[Nearly Sane]

Is it a rule that if you believe in one conspiracy theory, you've got to believe the whole bloody lot of them?

Not a  rule as such but certainly a trait.