The Church of Englad.Time for a moderator?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I wonder if it is time for the C of E to follow the Church of Scotland practice of having a moderator rather than an AoC.
The Bishop of Newcastle seems most effective and given a five year tenure might achieve things Archbishop Welby failed to do.
The CoE may also want to review it's leadership of the World wide Anglican community and concentrate on matters English.
The Anglican community then becomes a looser agglomeration along relationship lines.
Tight little cliques with power exercised over decades could then disappear.

[jeremyp]

I'm not quite sure how that is supposed to help.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'm not quite sure how that is supposed to help.

Help what and help who?

[jeremyp]

Help what and help who?

I assumed you had an idea of the answers to those two questions otherwise why bother suggesting the change? So, in summary, can you please tell me who or what it is supposed to help and how.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I assumed you had an idea of the answers to those two questions otherwise why bother suggesting the change? So, in summary, can you please tell me who or what it is supposed to help and how.

Sorry I was just trying to triangulate.
It helps to break up, neutralise and prevent the development of rotten and sclerotic networks and systems in the church.As demonstrated in Welby's tenure. It would help to prevents personification where the C o E becomes Welby or Runcie or anyone so ALL members of the Church are not seen as mini Welby's It prevents the concentration of power , it reduces the opportunities for patronage.

At the very least it seems Welby was stretched beyond his capacity and it is hard to see anyone not failing in the role.

[jeremyp]

Sorry I was just trying to triangulate.
It helps to break up, neutralise and prevent the development of rotten and sclerotic networks and systems in the church.

How does it do that?

As demonstrated in Welby's tenure. It would help to prevents personification where the C o E becomes Welby or Runcie or anyone so ALL members of the Church are not seen as mini Welby's It prevents the concentration of power , it reduces the opportunities for patronage.

How does it reduce the opportunities for patronage?

At the very least it seems Welby was stretched beyond his capacity and it is hard to see anyone not failing in the role.

What if the moderator is stretched beyond his or her capacity? Why would changing the name of the role of CofE "chief executive" help in any way?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

How does it do that?

The duration of tenure prevents accumulation of power in an individual, Power is spread and the period of tenure should be short enough to weed out those whose chief ambition is power.

How does it reduce the opportunities for patronage?

  It reduced the power and extent of the patron, again weeding out the ambitious.

What if the moderator is stretched beyond his or her capacity

That is a universal problem for anyone in a role but a moderator would not have as much scope to mess up as an A oC

Why would changing the name of the role of CofE "chief executive" help in any way?

It wouldn't just be a name change( see Role of the moderator of the Church of Scotland). I think CEOCOE is a bit of a crude analogy but I can certainly see how Welby's tenure might have given that impression

[Gordon]

I'd have thought the first thing to do would be to disentangle the CofE from the affairs of state politics and get them out of the HofL.

Then they can sort out their own internal affairs with proper accountability without the rest of us being bothered,  unless there are legal cases that like other cases are of public interest.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'd have thought the first thing to do would be to disentangle the CofE from the affairs of state politics and get them out of the HofL.

You might have thought it. I, like the previous AoC Rowan Williams was disestablishmentarian until I heard some of the noises some atheists were making and the atmosphere that generated.

[Nearly Sane]

You might have thought it. I, like the previous AoC Rowan Williams was disestablishmentarian until I heard some of the noises some atheists were making and the atmosphere that generated.

Like what?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Like what?

Well, for me it was talk of wanting religion out of the public forum and behind closed doors and religion being the root of all evil and even religious moderates pose a danger.

[Nearly Sane]

Well, for me it was talk of wanting religion out of the public forum and behind closed doors and religion being the root of all evil and even religious moderates pose a danger.

So if atheists saying something is affecting your view, it seems that the CoE harbouring and protecting a savage child molester doesn't? You seem a little confused in your approach, to the extent of being hypocritical.

[Gordon]

Well, for me it was talk of wanting religion out of the public forum and behind closed doors and religion being the root of all evil and even religious moderates pose a danger.

You don't think then that the CofE already operates 'behind closed doors', given the current problem they are facing, by failing to act and keeping quiet about child abuse they were well aware of.?

Nice to see, at this time of year, that you've managed to hang on to some straw.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So if atheists saying something is affecting your view, it seems that the CoE harbouring and protecting a savage child molester doesn't? You seem a little confused in your approach, to the extent of being hypocritical.

Are you therefore identifying all associated with the CofE as savage child molesters and that is the raisin d’etre of the CofE? And do you also think that all associated with the CofE self identify as such?

I’m sure you want the Church to go away or is there some form in which you think it should continue.
How do you think disestablishment would prevent bad elements in the Cof E?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

You don't think then that the CofE already operates 'behind closed doors', given the current problem they are facing, by failing to act and keeping quiet about child abuse they were well aware of.?

Nice to see, at this time of year, that you've managed to hang on to some straw.

https://thehumanist.com/voices/the_ethical_dilemma/humanist-dilemma-religion-banned/

[Gordon]

https://thehumanist.com/voices/the_ethical_dilemma/humanist-dilemma-religion-banned/

And your point is?

I'm not a humanist, and I don't want to ban religion.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And your point is?

I'm not a humanist, and I don't want to ban religion.

Did I say you did? If I did please accept my apologies. I said some did.

[Nearly Sane]

Are you therefore identifying all associated with the CofE as savage child molesters and that is the raisin d’etre of the CofE? And do you also think that all associated with the CofE self identify as such?

I’m sure you want the Church to go away or is there some form in which you think it should continue.
How do you think disestablishment would prevent bad elements in the Cof E?

No. But you did that about atheists so I merely played it back. Own it. Your link also doesn't show what you claim.