Author Topic: A Rich Man's game?  (Read 332 times)


jeremyp

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Re: A Rich Man's game?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2024, 07:38:54 PM »
Quote from: The article
If talent and opportunity were equally distributed, the average winner would come from a middle income background. The reality? The average laureate grew up in a household just below the top 10%. More than 50% come from the top 5%.

10% of what? 5% of what?

Opportunity is clearly not equally distributed. If you can afford an education, you are more likely to become a top scientist. T'was ever thus.

What else do you want anybody to say?
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Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: A Rich Man's game?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2024, 04:27:18 PM »
10% of what? 5% of what?

Opportunity is clearly not equally distributed. If you can afford an education, you are more likely to become a top scientist. T'was ever thus.

What else do you want anybody to say?
The value of a simonyi professor of the public awareness of Science perhaps?

jeremyp

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Re: A Rich Man's game?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2024, 08:51:47 PM »
The value of a simonyi professor of the public awareness of Science perhaps?

Zero. There's no such thing.
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Outrider

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Re: A Rich Man's game?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2024, 09:08:10 AM »
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/07/the-science-behind-winning-nobel-prize-being-man-from-wealthy-family-torsten-bell.

Any explanations?

It gives it's simplified explanation in the text, although given the idea that social mobility would result in better performance it's curious that the overwhelming majority of Nobel Laureates are American, given their performance on social mobility compared to other developed nations.

Which highlights the logical error in this section: "Reinforcing the case that a more equal sharing of opportunity would mean more scientific progress, the authors show that cities that have more intergenerational mobility produce more laureates."

The assumption is that these scientific developments are somehow the sole purview of the right intellect, and not an inevitable result of the current state of science collectively. Given how much trouble there can be narrowing down which two or three people to cite, because so many parallel developments are occuring all over the world, there's as much of a case to be made the the likelihood of a Nobel Laureate having rich/well-connected parents is because those connections can be leveraged into getting their names attached to an achievement rather than someone less well-connected. Given the wealth poured into the US scientific publishing machine, it also starts to account for that discrepancy, too.

It's almost as though it's not a simple just 'have a rich dad'.

O.
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Steve H

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Re: A Rich Man's game?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2024, 03:53:59 PM »
Quote from: Vlad
The value of a simonyi professor of the public awareness of Science perhaps?
Zero. There's no such thing.
He got one word wrong, but that is surely nit-picking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simonyi_Professor_for_the_Public_Understanding_of_Science
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jeremyp

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Re: A Rich Man's game?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2024, 05:11:47 PM »
Zero. There's no such thing.
He got one word wrong, but that is surely nit-picking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simonyi_Professor_for_the_Public_Understanding_of_Science

Vlad is the nit picker World Champion. He also has some sort of obsession with Richard Dawkins. I'll pick any damn nit I like in response to his JAQing bullshit.
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ProfessorDavey

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Re: A Rich Man's game?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2024, 12:47:20 PM »
The value of a simonyi professor of the public awareness of Science perhaps?
What have you got against Marcus du Sautoy Vlad?

Walt Zingmatilder

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Re: A Rich Man's game?
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2024, 03:22:29 PM »
What have you got against Marcus du Sautoy Vlad?
Not a lot I have to say and he benefits from the ‘Not Dawkins’ factor. I think De Sautoy said on his acsescion “Less Atheism and more science”. On the other hand Dawkins did promote public awareness of science although I think social darwinians received Dawkins enthusiastically.
Does the public have a Dawkinsian awareness of science? I think many have a Lovelockian outlook that Dawkins wouldn’t approve of.