Who is God?

[ProfessorDavey]

So what if it is? How does that affect contingency?Or the moment by moment dependence of something fundamental?

It affects contingency hugely - if time actually runs in the reverse direction to the way we perceive, arguably we reverse contingency so X being contingent on Y (which may require Y to be present before X exists) becomes Y being contingent on X (as how could X be contingent on something that didn't actually exist).

But of course you've completely failed to make a cogent base argument on contingency and your assertion (unevidenced) that there must be 'the necessary entity' that sits outside of the notion of contingency. Once you consider that time may not be linear and continuous and the notion of networks your assertions rather crumble to dust.

[Outrider]

I think somebody has floated the idea that there is no such thing as contingency. Difficult to see how that doesn't undercut science and methodological naturalism

Which in anyone were ideologically rather than pragmatically invested in it would be an issue. People use science and methodological naturalism because it's effective - if you want to replace it, you just need evidence of efficacy. Come up with a better methodology, and we'll run with it.

O.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Which in anyone were ideologically rather than pragmatically invested in it would be an issue. People use science and methodological naturalism because it's effective - if you want to replace it, you just need evidence of efficacy. Come up with a better methodology, and we'll run with it.

O.

In the light of your new found dodge of the static universe(from what perspective,?), How then without suggesting cause or effect, is science "effective".

Are you suggesting that motion, energy transfer and change are illusions?

I'm happy to run with science too, methodological naturalism is fine, philosophical naturalism and scientism, not so.

[Alan Burns]

I am God

Okay! okay! would you settle for God like

Gonnagle

PS: Atheist beware the end is nigh.

Well said, and welcome back.   

We are indeed made in God's image, and to get to know God we need to look more into our own spiritual self rather than the ultimately meaningless "cause and effect" scenario observed in the material world.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Well said, and welcome back.   

We are indeed made in God's image, and to get to know God we need to look more into our own spiritual self rather than the ultimately meaningless "cause and effect" scenario observed in the material world.

I agree that there is no way mere intellectual assent of Aquinas's arguments from contingency constitute a personal Christianity.
However, it doesn't harm to pitch it in imv.

[Outrider]

In the light of your new found dodge of the static universe(from what perspective,?), How then without suggesting cause or effect, is science "effective".

How long does it take you to fail to read every message just enough to misrepresent what people have said, so consistently?

I wasn't promoting the static universe model - you asked what would something look like that bypassed cause and effect and I suggested two models that would do that. When I report Biblical claims i'm not advocating for the Bible, I'm stating what a position that's sometimes held is.

O.

[torridon]

I am God

Okay! okay! would you settle for God like

Gonnagle

PS: Atheist beware the end is nigh.

   Welcome back Gonnagle

[torridon]

In all cultures God has been stated as being within ourselves. We however have a natural tendency to look outwards. The images that people worship are of cultural origin.

So I guess what you are saying is that the idea of 'God being within ourselves' is also of cultural origin. That's probably somewhat true.

[Sriram]

I am God

Okay! okay! would you settle for God like

Gonnagle

PS: Atheist beware the end is nigh.

Not entirely wrong actually!

In Hindu philosophy there is a statement from the Upanishads that is regarded as the Ultimate Truth.....'Aham Brahmasmi' or 'I am Brahman'.  This is to imply that our innermost consciousness (not the ego consciousness) is the fundamental Ultimate Reality. 

This is similar to the statement from the bible ...'The Kingdom of God is within you'.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sriram,

I may be picking your old brain a little now that I have returned to this wonderful forum, in my little walk in the wilderness I have discovered the joys of Meditation, so in reading your post you may be the very man with any tips/advice on the subject, but be gentle with me, the best I can say about Meditation ( so far ) is that it has brought a smile back to the Gonnagles face, a serene smile, a gentle smile

Anyway a thank you to the posters who have welcomed me back, on with the good fight, giving those devil worshipping atheists a jolly good thrashing ( although I think some of them may enjoy that sort of thing )

Gonnagle.

[God]

I am God

Okay! okay! would you settle for God like

Gonnagle

PS: Atheist beware the end is nigh.

No, I'm God and so's my wife.

[Sriram]

Dear Sriram,

I may be picking your old brain a little now that I have returned to this wonderful forum, in my little walk in the wilderness I have discovered the joys of Meditation, so in reading your post you may be the very man with any tips/advice on the subject, but be gentle with me, the best I can say about Meditation ( so far ) is that it has brought a smile back to the Gonnagles face, a serene smile, a gentle smile

Anyway a thank you to the posters who have welcomed me back, on with the good fight, giving those devil worshipping atheists a jolly good thrashing ( although I think some of them may enjoy that sort of thing )

Gonnagle.

Will be happy to discuss anything on the subject Gonnagle, based on what little I know...
 

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sriram,

What little do you know? I practice a very basic form myself ( Buddha approved ) Anapanasati, it was recommended to me, basically for beginners, anyway maybe a topic for another thread, it is a huge subject, I especially love all the science that has sprung up around it.

Gonnagle.

[Sriram]

Dear Sriram,

What little do you know? I practice a very basic form myself ( Buddha approved ) Anapanasati, it was recommended to me, basically for beginners, anyway maybe a topic for another thread, it is a huge subject, I especially love all the science that has sprung up around it.

Gonnagle.

The little I know is something I have learned over a lifetime.  Not easy to enumerate or explain. 

Yes....Mindful breathing in one of the techniques that are very useful in mind control.  I do that too.

Mind control is the basis of spiritual development. We then realize that we are not the body or the mind but something beyond. This realization is the essence of spirituality. It starts with wanting to know God but leads to Self realization.

[Alan Burns]

The little I know is something I have learned over a lifetime.  Not easy to enumerate or explain. 

Yes....Mindful breathing in one of the techniques that are very useful in mind control.  I do that too.

Mind control is the basis of spiritual development. We then realize that we are not the body or the mind but something beyond. This realization is the essence of spirituality. It starts with wanting to know God but leads to Self realization.

Our power to consciously meditate is certainly a reality which can bring us closer to God.
I find it hard to believe that a number of our non believer friends posting on the "Searching for God" thread claim that we can have no conscious control over our thoughts, (which is the inevitable conclusion derived from the materialistic scenario of physically determined cause and effect.)

[Gonnagle]

Dear Mr Burns,

Well that settles it, a new thread awaits, Meditation. But which category should we place it in. So many kinds of Meditation, Zen, Buddhist, Christian, Judaic, Islamic, I don't think it should be placed on any religious threads. To big a subject, and I personally like the science behind the study of the topic.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Mr Burns,

Well that settles it, a new thread awaits, Meditation. But which category should we place it in. So many kinds of Meditation, Zen, Buddhist, Christian, Judaic, Islamic, I don't think it should be placed on any religious threads. To big a subject, and I personally like the science behind the study of the topic.

Gonnagle.

I now have Roy Castle singing in my head Meditation is what you need

https://youtu.be/GilqqHC0SQ8?si=v-uVFyvPBLO-xjVa

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

If you wannabe a record breaker yeeeeaaahh, showing your age old son

Gonnagle.