Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️

[ProfessorDavey]

Are you trying to dissociate Atheism from New Atheism?
Here is a more general criticism of atheism, and for those of a nervous disposition, it does question the very definition “Atheism is merely the lack of belief in God or gods.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_atheism

As ever you seem to misunderstand (or deliberately misrepresent) the distinctions between atheism, anti-theism and secularism. They are not the same thing and while there will be some people who hold all three positions they are not synonymous.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

As ever you seem to misunderstand (or deliberately misrepresent) the distinctions between atheism, anti-theism and secularism. They are not the same thing and while there will be some people who hold all three positions they are not synonymous.

How can you get more antitheist than declaring that  “God is nought in my sight”. I mean sight as a metaphor for thinking.

[ProfessorDavey]

How can you get more antitheist than declaring that  “God is nought in my sight”. I mean sight as a metaphor for thinking.

Well first you will have to help me out with that quote - I've no idea who said that.

And by the way I said anti-theism, not anti-theist - again they are not the same, the former is against the concept and actions of theism in society the second is against people who are theist.

But we are drifting away from the topic, which is atheism - remember a lack of belief in the existence of god or gods (nothing more, nothing less). Being atheist does not mean that someone is necessarily a proponent of antitheism and/or secularism.

And I'd go further - in fact plenty of people who are actually religious and theist are selectively proponents of antitheism (believing their religion is preferable to other religions) and selectively secular as they tend to support the interactions of state and religion only if that religion happens to be their religion, but are against if the state religion receiving special privileges is another religion.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Well first you will have to help me out with that quote - I've no idea who said that.

And by the way I said anti-theism, not anti-theist - again they are not the same, the former is against the concept and actions of theism in society the second is against people who are theist.

But we are drifting away from the topic, which is atheism - remember a lack of belief in the existence of god or gods (nothing more, nothing less). Being atheist does not mean that someone is necessarily a proponent of antitheism and/or secularism.

And I'd go further - in fact plenty of people who are actually religious and theist are selectively proponents of antitheism (believing their religion is preferable to other religions) and selectively secular as they tend to support the interactions of state and religion only if that religion happens to be their religion, but are against if the state religion receiving special privileges is another religion.

I go with Sloan Wilson, that new Atheism IS a stealth religion and that people like yourself tend to fit the profile.
The characteristics of the New atheist were listed, based on a previous version of the wikipedia entry on new atheism.on another thread....check that to see if you qualify as a believer.

At the other other extreme there is the great"NON"....Atheism as merely the lack of belief.

As unassailable as that may be. You will still find challenge to people's antitheism, empiricism, naturalism, scientism, committed agnosticism and assumption of the default( see the Wikipedia article "criticism of atheism"

[jeremyp]

I go with Sloan Wilson, that new Atheism IS a stealth religion and that people like yourself tend to fit the profile.

So what?

This is a discussion about atheism, not New Atheism.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

So what?

This is a discussion about atheism, not New Atheism.

Which type though? In what way is New atheism NOT atheism to whit are you talking about strong atheism, weak atheism, positive atheism or negative atheism.. or even christian atheism?

[Stranger]

Which type though? In what way is New atheism NOT atheism to whit are you talking about strong atheism, weak atheism, positive atheism or negative atheism.. or even christian atheism?

Good grief Vlad, the nature of atheism has been explained to you endless times. I simply don't believe you can be stupid enough to be genuinely confused and yet still be able to post on a forum.

Grow up.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Good grief Vlad, the nature of atheism has been explained to you endless times. I simply don't believe you can be stupid enough to be genuinely confused and yet still be able to post on a forum.

Grow up.

Stop talking rubbish.
Is atheism just true for you or everyone?

[Nearly Sane]

Which type though? In what way is New atheism NOT atheism to whit are you talking about strong atheism, weak atheism, positive atheism or negative atheism.. or even christian atheism?

  The op talks about atheism in its entirety. The sole requirement to be an atheist is a lack of a belief in god(s). So the divisions in that sense are immaterial to the question.

[Nearly Sane]

Stop talking rubbish.
Is atheism just true for you or everyone?

And there you illustrate the problem. Atheism the state of the lack of belief in god (s) isn't a claim.

[Stranger]

Stop talking rubbish.

Is atheism just true for you or everyone?

  Atheism is a statement about what an individual doesn't believe. It says nothing about the world.

[Outrider]

Is atheism just true for you or everyone?

Gnosticism is about whether god-claims are truth-claims, atheism (and theism) are about belief, which is individual.

Atheism's open to everyone, I guess, by implication, but I suspect not everyone's ready for it as is evidenced by the "swivel-eyed" lunacy behind the rallying cry of 'but what about the New Atheists'....

O.

[Nearly Sane]

Gnosticism is about whether god-claims are truth-claims, atheism (and theism) are about belief, which is individual.

Atheism's open to everyone, I guess, by implication, but I suspect not everyone's ready for it as is evidenced by the "swivel-eyed" lunacy behind the rallying cry of 'but what about the New Atheists'....

O.

You can make claims about what you believe to be try that aren't claims to knowledge but are still subject to the burden of proof.

[jeremyp]

You can make claims about what you believe to be try that aren't claims to knowledge but are still subject to the burden of proof.

The statement "I don't believe in God" is a truth claim. It's a true statement about me, or at least, so I claim. How would I go about proving it?

[Nearly Sane]

The statement "I don't believe in God" is a truth claim. It's a true statement about me, or at least, so I claim. How would I go about proving it?

Subjective claims about the subject's position are essentially irrelevant as  a truth claim. And thinking they are elevant as truth claims in the context of the thread is at best tedious. 

[jeremyp]

Subjective claims about the subject's position are essentially irrelevant as  a truth claim. And thinking they are elevant as truth claims in the context of the thread is at best tedious.

So what are some examples of:

You can make claims about what you believe to be [true] that aren't claims to knowledge but are still subject to the burden of proof.

And why did you bring it up?

[Nearly Sane]

So what are some examples of:

And why did you bring it up?

You can say i believe there is no God, and it's a claim about what can be an objective truth. This is different from that being a true statement about you believe.  As to why I brought it up, precisely because of what appears to be the mistake you are making - that there is no difference.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Atheists,

Deja vu, I have been here before, trying to prise out of Atheists WHY the stock answer is "there is no evidence" and I walk away bemused, the simple answer for me is that human beings/mankind are more.

My evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9al6HNOgSo

The human voice to me is a beautiful musical instrument WHY

https://morganmarine.com/news-events/the-fighting-temeraire-a-brief-history/

It is just some old oil on canvas, but its not, it is beautiful, it is haunting WHY

Old Darwin with his wonderful theory/fact/hypothesis call it want you like tells me I am just some kind of evolved ape/monkey, but I am not, modern science now tells me I am unique, every poster on this forum is unique, I would go further and say special WHY

Atheism WHY

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

Dear Atheists,

Deja vu, I have been here before, trying to prise out of Atheists WHY the stock answer is "there is no evidence" and I walk away bemused, the simple answer for me is that human beings/mankind are more.

My evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9al6HNOgSo

The human voice to me is a beautiful musical instrument WHY

https://morganmarine.com/news-events/the-fighting-temeraire-a-brief-history/

It is just some old oil on canvas, but its not, it is beautiful, it is haunting WHY

Old Darwin with his wonderful theory/fact/hypothesis call it want you like tells me I am just some kind of evolved ape/monkey, but I am not, modern science now tells me I am unique, every poster on this forum is unique, I would go further and say special WHY

Atheism WHY

Gonnagle.

Your particular version of God WHY?

It would be relatively easy to go into your specific questions but it would miss the logical point entirely. Let's pretend that they are all total mysteries, that would still not justify a 'therefore (my version of) God' pseudo-answer.

The existence of unknowns in the world cannot justify an evidence-free 'just-so' story; they are just unknowns. You provide no logic at all that goes from your 'why' questions to the existence of your God. The magical beauty pixies would do just as well...

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

My particular version?

Gonnagle.

[jeremyp]

You can say i believe there is no God, and it's a claim about what can be an objective truth.

The statement "I believe there is no God" is a statement about my beliefs. I can't prove that in any objective way - you just have to take my word for it.

The statement "there is no God" is an objective statement about the World that requires justification.

This is different from that being a true statement about you believe.  As to why I brought it up, precisely because of what appears to be the mistake you are making - that there is no difference.

It seems you are the one making a mistake.

[Nearly Sane]

The statement "I believe there is no God" is a statement about my beliefs. I can't prove that in any objective way - you just have to take my word for it.

The statement "there is no God" is an objective statement about the World that requires justification.
It seems you are the one making a mistake.

If I say that I believe Dinakd Trump is a great president, it is reasonable to ask for evidence and argument. The same is I say I believe in a god. That it is true I do believe those things is separate from any of the arguments.
or evidence.

[Aruntraveller]

Dear Atheists,

Deja vu, I have been here before, trying to prise out of Atheists WHY the stock answer is "there is no evidence" and I walk away bemused, the simple answer for me is that human beings/mankind are more.

My evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9al6HNOgSo

The human voice to me is a beautiful musical instrument WHY

https://morganmarine.com/news-events/the-fighting-temeraire-a-brief-history/

It is just some old oil on canvas, but its not, it is beautiful, it is haunting WHY

Old Darwin with his wonderful theory/fact/hypothesis call it want you like tells me I am just some kind of evolved ape/monkey, but I am not, modern science now tells me I am unique, every poster on this forum is unique, I would go further and say special WHY

Atheism WHY

Gonnagle.

Welcome back Gonnagle, good to see you here again.

You are beginning to sound like one of those annoying children you sometimes hear in a supermarket who have discovered the use of " why " to irritate their parents.

My only answer to you is, Why not ?   

[Stranger]

My particular version?

You're not going to pretend that theists agree about God, are you?

Quite apart from the endless different religions, cults, sects, and denominations, it has been my experiences that even people from the same congregation can have widely differing views about God. This is yet another reason to think that it's all a product of the imagination, rather than a perception of an objective reality. People creating their God in their own image matches the facts far better....

[jeremyp]

Dear Atheists,

Deja vu, I have been here before, trying to prise out of Atheists WHY the stock answer is "there is no evidence" and I walk away bemused, the simple answer for me is that human beings/mankind are more.

I don't understand why you think that I need more justification than "there is no evidence".

My evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9al6HNOgSo

The human voice to me is a beautiful musical instrument WHY

My human voice isn't.

https://morganmarine.com/news-events/the-fighting-temeraire-a-brief-history/

It is just some old oil on canvas, but its not, it is beautiful, it is haunting WHY

Old Darwin with his wonderful theory/fact/hypothesis call it want you like tells me I am just some kind of evolved ape/monkey, but I am not, modern science now tells me I am unique, every poster on this forum is unique, I would go further and say special WHY

I don't see anything about the process of evolution that precludes human art. In fact, we can observe that different human cultures have different artistic aesthetics. That would seem to deny the idea that it is god-imbued.