Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️

[Aruntraveller]

The destruction of Ukraine is disgraceful - Why?

Nails scraped down a blackboard is a horrible sound - Why?

Putin as an individual is unique but also a thug, bully and murderer - Why?

The Scottish Parliament Building in Edinburgh is the world's ugliest building - Why?

Christianity - Why?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

You're not going to pretend that theists agree about God, are you?

No, I am asking what is my particular version.

Gonnagle.

[jeremyp]

If I say that I believe Dinakd Trump is a great president, it is reasonable to ask for evidence and argument.

I would accept that statement about your beliefs but I would argue that the statement you believe ("Donald Trump is a great president") is false.

It's the "I believe..." at the start that is tripping you up.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Aruntraveller,

Who are you you have the title administrator >:(your posts seem familiar

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

You're not going to pretend that theists agree about God, are you?

No, I am asking what is my particular version.

You want me to tell you what your version of God is like....?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Arun,

If you are Glaswegian then Aruntraveller takes on a whole new meaning

You are beginning to sound like one of those annoying children you sometimes hear in a supermarket who have discovered the use of " why " to irritate their parents.

Oh I will never stop asking why, never

Gonnagle.

[Aruntraveller]

Dear Aruntraveller,

Who are you you have the title administrator >:(your posts seem familiar

Gonnagle.

I used to be Trentvoyager - we relocated to the South Coast just before Covid and I changed my name to reflect the locality.

[Stranger]

Oh I will never stop asking why, never

Why does your God exist (rather than a different one, none, or many)?   

[Enki]

Dear Atheists,

Deja vu, I have been here before, trying to prise out of Atheists WHY the stock answer is "there is no evidence" and I walk away bemused, the simple answer for me is that human beings/mankind are more.

My evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9al6HNOgSo

The human voice to me is a beautiful musical instrument WHY

https://morganmarine.com/news-events/the-fighting-temeraire-a-brief-history/

It is just some old oil on canvas, but its not, it is beautiful, it is haunting WHY

Old Darwin with his wonderful theory/fact/hypothesis call it want you like tells me I am just some kind of evolved ape/monkey, but I am not, modern science now tells me I am unique, every poster on this forum is unique, I would go further and say special WHY

Atheism WHY

Gonnagle.

Deja vu indeed. You seem to ask the same old questions so it's not surprising you'll get the same old answers, is it?

Actually I saw the Fighting Temeraire quite recently when a group of us visited the National Gallery to see a recent Caravaggio Exhibition. My question to you is why on earth shouldn't I be moved by different forms of artistic expression such as music or art without invoking a feeling of a god?

Last year our dog of fifteen years died. To us he was unique and very, very special. No god seemed to be involved either in his life or his death.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

Avoiding the question okay my version, I am a Christian type person but I will take my wisdom where I find it, Mohammed, Socrates, Our Lord Jesus, Buddha, but I do not have a version of God, who/what is God is a question we have been asking since we stepped out of the caves, no one and I mean no one can answer that question.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

I used to be Trentvoyager - we relocated to the South Coast just before Covid and I changed my name to reflect the locality.

Dear Trent,

I wasn't wrong, but good to know the Moderation is in good hands well except for that Almost sensible chap, keep an eye on him

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

I would accept that statement about your beliefs but I would argue that the statement you believe ("Donald Trump is a great president") is false.

It's the "I believe..." at the start that is tripping you up.

You appear not to understand hypotheticals.


The post I replied to from Outider implied that in order to need to provide evidence for a claim you need to be claiming knowledge not belief. This is incorrect.

[Stranger]

Avoiding the question

I can't answer questions about what you believe unless you've already told me. 

..okay my version, I am a Christian type person but I will take my wisdom where I find it, Mohammed, Socrates, Our Lord Jesus, Buddha, but I do not have a version of God, who/what is God is a question we have been asking since we stepped out of the caves, no one and I mean no one can answer that question.

That is a version of God, just a rather dogmatically unknowable version. Many theists would give you an argument.

So, we've now identified two massive problems with positing a God....

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Stranger,

Avoiding the question okay my version, I am a Christian type person but I will take my wisdom where I find it, Mohammed, Socrates, Our Lord Jesus, Buddha, but I do not have a version of God, who/what is God is a question we have been asking since we stepped out of the caves, no one and I mean no one can answer that question.

Gonnagle.

If no one can answer what a god is then it's a meaningless answer. You could just as well say you believe in floaters, and ask me why I don't.

[Gordon]

Dear Atheists,

Deja vu, I have been here before, trying to prise out of Atheists WHY the stock answer is "there is no evidence" and I walk away bemused, the simple answer for me is that human beings/mankind are more.

My evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9al6HNOgSo

The human voice to me is a beautiful musical instrument WHY

https://morganmarine.com/news-events/the-fighting-temeraire-a-brief-history/

It is just some old oil on canvas, but its not, it is beautiful, it is haunting WHY

Old Darwin with his wonderful theory/fact/hypothesis call it want you like tells me I am just some kind of evolved ape/monkey, but I am not, modern science now tells me I am unique, every poster on this forum is unique, I would go further and say special WHY

Atheism WHY

Gonnagle.

There are times when 'why' may be an invalid question.

I'd say the reason why people find certain things beautiful, be it music or paintings, or whatever, is that this is their subjective response to whatever it is. Thus the 'beauty' you ascribe to the Fighting Temeraire isn't an attribute of the painting itself - it is how you feel about it, and of course people may feel differently about things. So the answer to 'why is the Fighting Temeraire beautiful?' seems to me like a flawed question, since as an object this painting it doesn't contain a property called 'beauty' - but in the eyes of some people, or maybe most people, it is beautiful simply because that is how they feel about it.

For example, I find all forms of dancing to be uninteresting and not in the least entertaining: I fully appreciate the talent and skill involved but it leaves me cold, so I don't engage with it (I've never seen 'Strictly') - but others may have a different view. 'Eye of the beholder' stuff right enough.

[ProfessorDavey]

Dear Atheists,

Deja vu, I have been here before, trying to prise out of Atheists WHY the stock answer is "there is no evidence" and I walk away bemused, the simple answer for me is that human beings/mankind are more.

My evidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9al6HNOgSo

The human voice to me is a beautiful musical instrument WHY

https://morganmarine.com/news-events/the-fighting-temeraire-a-brief-history/

It is just some old oil on canvas, but its not, it is beautiful, it is haunting WHY

Old Darwin with his wonderful theory/fact/hypothesis call it want you like tells me I am just some kind of evolved ape/monkey, but I am not, modern science now tells me I am unique, every poster on this forum is unique, I would go further and say special WHY

Atheism WHY

Gonnagle.

Gonners - I think you are sliding down the same anthropocentric rabbit hole that Vlad constantly descends into.

Just because certain things seem important, provoke emotional responses, or seem beautiful in humans doesn't mean that they are objectively important, beautiful or emotion-inducing in a broader non-anthropocentric manner. Let's not forget that the human voice or human art are insignificant in a cosmic context, indeed having only been present for the blink of an eye on one random planet, in one random solar system, in one random galaxy in the context of the universe.

And if you do consider WHY to be a relevant question, it is easily answered by reference to evolution. The survival advantage of humans is inextricably linked to our ability to communicate, to innovate/invent and to maintain complex social structures. We can't out-run a lion, or come off top in a hand to hand fight with a bear etc. So evolution in humans will select for attributes that best support communication, to innovation/inventiveness and the ability to maintain complex social structures. That we find the human voice beautiful or create/enjoy art (about an invention!!) is all completely consistent with that evolutionary drive.

[SqueakyVoice]

Dear fellow Posters,

Well here we are again happy as can be all good friends and jolly good company
...
So my simple question which I posed in the den of ill repute is, is Atheism a form of belief

Gonnagle.

Good grief Gonners... I've spent years praying that the really isn't a god. And now you've turned up.
...Halle-fudgin-lujah...

[jeremyp]

You appear not to understand hypotheticals.

You appear not to understand.

The post I replied to from Outider implied that in order to need to provide evidence for a claim you need to be claiming knowledge not belief. This is incorrect.

No it isn't. It is correct. There is a huge difference between the statements "I believe there is no god" and "there is no god". One is a claim about my thought processes, the other is a claim about the real world. You can ask me why I believe there is no god or you can ask me to justify my belief but you just have to take my word for it that I do believe there is no god rather than believe there is a god.

[jeremyp]

who/what is God is a question we have been asking since we stepped out of the caves, no one and I mean no one can answer that question.

Well then, it seems odd to me that many religionists seem so certain about what God wants.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

Anthropocentric, nice word, in its simplest form "are we special" am I right, this is what anthropocentric means, I have had a wee google and this is basically what the word means to me, help me out I am a empty book waiting to have my pages filled with wisdom.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

You appear not to understand.
No it isn't. It is correct. There is a huge difference between the statements "I believe there is no god" and "there is no god". One is a claim about my thought processes, the other is a claim about the real world. You can ask me why I believe there is no god or you can ask me to justify my belief but you just have to take my word for it that I do believe there is no god rather than believe there is a god.

You seem ti be confused. I have clearly stated that it is correct to take your word for what you believe.  That it is a stated as being a belief as opposed to a statement of knowledge does not mean that you do not have a burden of proof to justify your belief.

[jeremyp]

You seem ti be confused. I have clearly stated that it is correct to take your word for what you believe.

Well why were you arguing against me?

[Gonnagle]

Well then, it seems odd to me that many religionists seem so certain about what God wants.

Dear Jeremy,

Yes and I am one, the Golden rule, Our Lord Jesus was very specific about this, Mathew 22 verses 37 to 39, but most religions have there own version, but I have had this discussion before, the Golden rule does belong just to theists it is universal.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

Well why were you arguing against me?

I think in the immortal words of the playground, you started it.

[Gordon]

Dear Jeremy,

Yes and I am one, the Golden rule, Our Lord Jesus was very specific about this, Mathew 22 verses 37 to 39, but most religions have there own version, but I have had this discussion before, the Golden rule does belong just to theists it is universal.

Gonnagle.

But the so-called 'Golden Rule', in the form "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." has a fairly obvious flaw - person A might not wish 'done to them' what Person B would like 'done to themselves', and it would be unwise for Person B to assume this before any 'doing' gets done, where Person A is the target.