Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️

[Stranger]

You are getting there, one small step for man one giant leap for mankind.

I think you've got the wrong idea old chap. I'm actually rummaging around on the floor looking for my lower jaw at how crazy your posts are. You seem to regard the existence of something called 'God' as axiomatic, despite the fact that you claim that you don't know what it is and can give no actual reason as to why you take the idea at all seriously, let alone why you regard it with such certainty. You further seem to think that it's vaguely sensible or useful to ask about what it might want, despite the aforementioned lack of knowledge.

What have you been smoking?

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

Sorry old chap, I think I upset old Sane, oh dear❤️

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Prof,

Sorry old chap, I think I upset old Sane, oh dear❤️

Gonnagle.

dear dog, bollocks isn't even something I have to be slightly peeved to use

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

axiomatic

self-evident or unquestionable.

Nice word ( this board is a education ) self evident to me but most definitely open to being questioned.

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

Sorry again old Sane is just slightly peeved.

Dear Sane,

You are such a girls blouse.

Gonnagle.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think what Vkad is doing is conflating the fact that no atheist is simply that, a person who lacks belief in gods, with the erroneous idea that being an atheist requires anything more than being capable of believing in gids but not doing so.

He's had this pointed out to him many times but continually ignores it because he lies.

I have said that people who merely lack belief in God are atheists, I have said that those who are sure there is no God are atheists too, as are people who say there are no reasons to think there is a god, as are those who wanted to put don't worry, there isn't a God on a bus and those who under duress did but added probably to the message. All atheists pal and that's before we get onto John Gray's seven types.

Your scurrying behind Antony Flew when the heat is on is imo played out.

[Stranger]

Nice word ( this board is a education ) self evident to me...

But why? You can't or won't provide any reasoning. All you've posted is that some things are beautiful. So what? How does that get you to a God? In fact, since you claim not to know what God is, it would seem to be impossible, even in principle, to have any rational reason to believe it exists.

Your whole approach seems to be completely irrational.

...but most definitely open to being questioned.

Then question it. Ask yourself why you regard it as self-evidend, and see if you can come up with anything remotely logical...

[Stranger]

I have said that people who merely lack belief in God are atheists, I have said that those who are sure there is no God are atheists too, as are people who say there are no reasons to think there is a god, as are those who wanted to put don't worry, there isn't a God on a bus and those who under duress did but added probably to the message. All atheists pal and that's before we get onto John Gray's seven types.

Oh, for fuck's sake, try thinking. Of course, they're all atheists.

If you're sure that there is no God, then you will not have a belief in any God.

If you think there is no reason to believe in a God, you will not have a belief in any God.

The definition of atheist is not having a belief in any God or gods. It is not "somebody whose entire position on God and gods is that they merely lack a belief in them".

This isn't rocket science.

[ProfessorDavey]

I have said that people who merely lack belief in God are atheists,

And that is it - period.

I have said that those who are sure there is no God are atheists too,

Not sure you'll find any of that ilk here. But nonetheless that person would not be an agnostic atheist, as they would claim surety about the non-existence of god, unlike me who is an agnostic atheist as I do not know as to whether god exists or not. So the distinction here is on agnosticism, not atheism.

as are people who say there are no reasons to think there is a god

But that is about why someone is atheist not whether they are atheist, so again their atheism is the same as me or the person who is distinct from me on agnosticism.

as are those who wanted to put don't worry, there isn't a God on a bus and those who under duress did but added probably to the message.

Irrelevant as that was an advertising campaign.

The point is that in every case the 'atheism' in question is simply a lack of belief in god or gods. Whether a person does or does not claim certainty (agnosticism) or their reasoning for being an atheist, or their desire to tell others about it or not does not change the basic premise of their atheism.

[Nearly Sane]

I have said that people who merely lack belief in God are atheists, I have said that those who are sure there is no God are atheists too, as are people who say there are no reasons to think there is a god, as are those who wanted to put don't worry, there isn't a God on a bus and those who under duress did but added probably to the message. All atheists pal and that's before we get onto John Gray's seven types.

Your scurrying behind Antony Flew when the heat is on is imo played out.

  The point, which you ignored as you continue to lie, is that all that is necessary for being an atheist is the capability to believe yet lack a  belief in god. That's it. There are as many types of atheist as there are atheists, and as many types of theists as there are theists.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

And that is it - period.
Not sure you'll find any of that ilk here.

Yes, one wonders how, if an atheist of a different kind pitched up or came out on this forum how they would be treated by ther"Atheists are merely people who lack a belief in God,  by their "Atheists are merely people who lack a belief in God" would be treated.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof and old Sane not to sure about the Stranger

So just for the guys in the cheap seats (me) you are not only just Atheists but you are all Agnostic Atheists yes/no?

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Prof and old Sane not to sure about the Stranger

So just for the guys in the cheap seats (me) you are not only just Atheists but you are all Agnostic Atheists yes/no?

Gonnagle.

If you want to go down the labels route, I'd probably br classified in that grouping as an ignostic atheist

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism

But I find that such labels are simplistic and uninformative. Whether someone is an atheist or a theist tells me nothing useful about them.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Sane,

oh you can bet your sweet fanny adams that I want to go down the label route, for me Agnostic Atheist opens up the debate, so once again, Agnostic Atheist yes/no.

Gonnagle.

[Nearly Sane]

Dear Sane,

oh you can bet your sweet fanny adams that I want to go down the label route, for me Agnostic Atheist opens up the debate, so once again, Agnostic Atheist yes/no.

Gonnagle.

See my reply as regards ignosticism. If ignosticism is classified as a subset of agnosticism then the answer would be yes, but I'd suggest it is better seen as a separate but related category. The problem with the labels is they get in the way of actually asking what the individual thinks. See my comment to Vlad about there being as many types of atheists/theists as there are atheists/theists

[ProfessorDavey]

Dear Prof and old Sane not to sure about the Stranger

So just for the guys in the cheap seats (me) you are not only just Atheists but you are all Agnostic Atheists yes/no?

Gonnagle.

Yes - I would consider myself to be an agnostic atheist, as I pointed out in an earlier post.

Straight back at you gonners - are you an agnostic theist? In other words someone who believes that god exists but does not know whether god exists or not.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Prof,

Yep, it is right back at me and I will go out on a very shaky branch and say yes I am a Agnostic theist, but ( always a but ) I am unsure where Sane is coming from, I think these particular labels help.

But then!! who am I trying to convince, myself, I am pretty much convinced there is a God so I would have to scratch the Agnostic but trying to convince you would put me back on the shaky branch.

Now! oh now! and I am very wary of the quick google but I just asked a simple question.

Yes, "agnostic atheist" is generally considered an oxymoron because an atheist explicitly states they do not believe in a god, while an agnostic maintains that the existence of a god is unknown or unknowable, essentially leaving the question open; therefore, combining the two contradicts the core meaning of each term.


So where does that leave you or me?

Gonnagle.

[jeremyp]

Dear Prof,

So rather than continually muddying the waters by implying that our atheism is something other than what we consider it to be Vlad - let's stick to defining atheism as a lack of belief in god or gods.

I get it, I really do, it is the why I am stuck on, I honestly think the honest stance is Agnostic, Atheist is so final,

Αgnostic atheism seems reasonable to me. I don't believe in gods but I cannot be sure there isn't at least one.

Atheist screams at me I have all the answers, but then as I think how can a evolved ape/monkey have all the answers✝️

Firstly, none of the atheists on this board would ever claim that we have all the answers. Secondly, what we do claim is "I don't know" is a better response to any question for which we do not have an answer than "because God".

[Stranger]

Now! oh now! and I am very wary of the quick google but I just asked a simple question.

Yes, "agnostic atheist" is generally considered an oxymoron because an atheist explicitly states they do not believe in a god, while an agnostic maintains that the existence of a god is unknown or unknowable, essentially leaving the question open; therefore, combining the two contradicts the core meaning of each term.
.

You can find all sorts of bollocks with google. Agnostic atheism is a widely acknowledged, and entirely self-consistent position.

Agnostic atheism
Agnostic Atheist Defined
Agnostic Atheist

Given the total lack of evidence or sound reasoning for any God or gods, but also the fact that many god claims are unfalsifiable, it also seems to be the only fully rational position to take.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Jeremy,

Αgnostic atheism seems reasonable to me. I don't believe in gods but I cannot be sure there isn't at least one.


Your reply seems reasonable to me, where I get stuck is the atheism bit, I think agnostic about covers all angles.

Firstly, none of the atheists on this board would ever claim that we have all the answers. Secondly, what we do claim is "I don't know" is a better response to any question for which we do not have an answer than "because God".

Sorry but that is just a feeling I get, Atheists sound so sure of there position but just a feeling

Gonnagle.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

You can find all sorts of bollocks with google. Agnostic atheism is a widely acknowledged, and entirely self-consistent position.


True so true, my opinion, the internet, 80% shit 20% hidden gems, you have to use that God given thing between your ears to workout and find the hidden gems✝️

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

True so true, my opinion, the internet, 80% shit 20% hidden gems, you have to use that God given thing between your ears to workout and find the hidden gems✝️

I think your percentages may be a tad optimistic, and not all the gems are hidden, but, given that you don't know what God is, how can you say anything is "God given"? Seems you have to know quite a lot about what God is for that to make sense.

TBH I just don't buy the ignostic theist you're trying to claim to be. That is a combination that really doesn't make sense.

[Gonnagle]

Dear Stranger,

In trying to explain my position on my faith who better than my old friend wee Albert.

“The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead —his eyes are closed. The insight into the mystery of life, coupled though it be with fear, has also given rise to religion. To know what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms—this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.”

To know what is impenetrable to us really exists

Gonnagle,

[Gordon]

Yes, "agnostic atheist" is generally considered an oxymoron because an atheist explicitly states they do not believe in a god, while an agnostic maintains that the existence of a god is unknown or unknowable, essentially leaving the question open; therefore, combining the two contradicts the core meaning of each term.


So where does that leave you or me?

Gonnagle.

Nope - 'agnostic atheist' isn't an oxymoron: all it means it that someone lacks a belief in gods and that they aren't trying to justify their lack of belief by citing or claiming knowledge.

My view is that theism, including Christianity, is no more that codified nonsense and, as such, there is nothing to meaningfully engage with, so I don't waste my time on it. Therefore I am an atheist, and since I think there is nothing meaningful that can be said about gods that is remotely believable I am, I suppose, an agnostic atheist.

[Stranger]

Dear Stranger,

In trying to explain my position on my faith who better than my old friend wee Albert.

“The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom the emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand wrapped in awe, is as good as dead —his eyes are closed. The insight into the mystery of life, coupled though it be with fear, has also given rise to religion. To know what is impenetrable to us really exists, manifesting itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, which our dull faculties can comprehend only in their most primitive forms—this knowledge, this feeling is at the center of true religiousness.”

To know what is impenetrable to us really exists

Gonnagle,

This doesn't actually help explain how you can say that you don't know what God is, yet you seem to know that brains are God given.

In fact, given the other things Einstein said about God and religion, you appear to be simply running away from the point and hiding behind a quote from somebody with entirely different views from your own.