Atheism, please note the capitalisation❤️

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

Not sure which is worse Stranger's victim blaming "Got itself tortured" ot yours "tortured himself".
Why is it you seem to be actually exonerating torture and torturers?

Surely it's your faith that "exonerates" torture and torturers isn't it? After all, didn't your god engineer the whole (supposed) episode?

Any news by the way on you correcting your lie about P Z Myers and the Courtier's Reply?   

[Dicky Underpants]

Not sure which is worse Stranger's victim blaming "Got itself tortured" ot yours "tortured himself".
Why is it you seem to be actually exonerating torture and torturers?

I'm not exonerating anything or anyone. I'm simply adding my bit to point out the mind-boggling, fatuous, meaningless, pointless absurdity of it all.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Hi Gonners,

Dear Blue,

Sorry, yes good Morning, as for your post👍👍👍

OK - thanks for clarifying. That makes a lot more sense to me than AB's "Jesus wants me for a sunbeam" assertions. 

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I'm not exonerating anything or anyone. I'm simply adding my bit to point out the mind-boggling, fatuous, meaningless, pointless absurdity of it all.

It's not absurd, If I am not able to put the wrong I have done right the alienated party has to take what I've dished out on themselves. For me to find his forgiveness offensive is churlish and ridiculous but moreover"On me".

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

Surely it's your faith that "exonerates" torture and torturers isn't it? After all, didn't your god engineer the whole (supposed) episode?

I don't think so since the gospel would talk about the kind of possession we tend to find in Star Trek, Where as several figures act or don't act through weakness, out of spite, political motivation.
I think it was more like a sacrificial operation with no chance of survival,

[Stranger]

Not sure which is worse Stranger's victim blaming "Got itself tortured" or yours "tortured himself".
Why is it you seem to be actually exonerating torture and torturers?

What are you wittering about? It's this God character that seems to think torture is a good idea; and torturing itself for our 'crime' of being as it made us. It's twisted sadomasochistic nonsense.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Hi Gonners,

OK - thanks for clarifying. That makes a lot more sense to me than AB's "Jesus wants me for a sunbeam" assertions.

Horses laugh?

[Stranger]

It's not absurd, If I am not able to put the wrong I have done right the alienated party has to take what I've dished out on themselves.

The pointless twisted self-torturing and fake death is not taking it on itself, and God's absurd and unjust rules that made the mess in the first place. It's insanity.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

I don't think so since the gospel would talk about the kind of possession we tend to find in Star Trek, Where as several figures act or don't act through weakness, out of spite, political motivation.
I think it was more like a sacrificial operation with no chance of survival,

Did this mean something in your head when you typed it?

According to your religion, your god engineered a torturer/tortured scenario. As this supposed god is also supposedly a god of the omnis too, that's exoneration.   

[Walt Zingmatilder]

The pointless twisted self-torturing and fake death is not taking it on itself, and God's absurd and unjust rules that made the mess in the first place. It's insanity.

Sorry, You either condemn or take what is wrongly dished out to you and forgive and there is more we need to know. We may think we are harming those we wrong but we are harming ourselves. And that is what Jesus took on.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

Did this mean something in your head when you typed it?

According to your religion, your god engineered a torturer/tortured scenario. As this supposed god is also supposedly a god of the omnis too, that's exoneration.

[jeremyp]

Sorry, You either condemn or take what is wrongly dished out to you and forgive and there is more we need to know. We may think we are harming those we wrong but we are harming ourselves. And that is what Jesus took on.

Jesus self harmed? We don't normally think of that as healthy.

[Stranger]

Sorry, You either condemn or take what is wrongly dished out to you and forgive and there is more we need to know. We may think we are harming those we wrong but we are harming ourselves. And that is what Jesus took on.

The God of Christianity unjustly condemns us for being the way it made us and then goes through the absurd self-torturing and fake death to make it 'right' but only for those who are crazy enough to believe it.

Nothing in this garbled mess of this post of yours addresses that absurdity.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Jesus self harmed? We don't normally think of that as healthy.

No We self harmed, Jeremy, we think doing wrong and getting away with it is advantages but as the book tells us the wages of sin is death of ourselves, we harm our selves. Only Jesus can take that from us. He doesn't die because of his own wrongdoing.

[Gonnagle]

Sorry, You either condemn or take what is wrongly dished out to you and forgive and there is more we need to know. We may think we are harming those we wrong but we are harming ourselves. And that is what Jesus took on.

Dear Vlad,

Deep mate very deep, thank you.

Dear Jeremyp,

Away and bile yer heid, this whole forum is alive with this story, it is a beautiful, tragic, live changing, powerful, change the world story and you come away with, we don't normally think of self harm as healthy, what are you on and have you brought enough for the whole class.

Gonnagle.

[Stranger]

...we think doing wrong and getting away with it is advantages...

Speak for yourself.

...but as the book tells us the wages of sin is death of ourselves, we harm our selves. Only Jesus can take that from us. He doesn't die because of his own wrongdoing.

Which is still an insane system that could only have been made by an unjust, vindictive, bloodthirsty God, for the reasons already explained.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Speak for yourself.

Which is still an insane system that could only have been made by an unjust, vindictive, bloodthirsty God, for the reasons already explained.

But it is Jesus who is both God and Man who bears it on behalf of others. Any bloodlust at the crucifixion was from other people but it is the sins of the world he takes on.

[jeremyp]

No We self harmed,

Speak for yourself. I haven't self harmed.

we think doing wrong and getting away with it is advantages

It frequently does have advantages. I'm sure we can all tink of instances where people have done wrong but got away with it. These people,e do harm, but not necessarily self harm.

but as the book tells us the wages of sin is death of ourselves

We all die. This is like telling an animal that has no legs it will have to slither around on its belly for ever more.

, we harm our selves. Only Jesus can take that from us. He doesn't die because of his own wrongdoing.

He didn't die according to your book, at least, not permanently. It's like using a credit card to pay somebody's debt, then ringing the bank and reversing the transaction.

[Stranger]

But it is Jesus who is both God and Man who bears it on behalf of others. Any bloodlust at the crucifixion was from other people but it is the sins of the world he takes on.

Repeating the idiotic 'justification' will not make it make any sense. And those people at the crucifixion were carrying out God's plan.

There should be no price to pay for being how God made us. A substitute blood sacrifice is insane, bloodthirsty, and manifestly unjust. And it wasn't even a real death.

[bluehillside Retd.]

Vlad,

But it is Jesus who is both God and Man who bears it on behalf of others. Any bloodlust at the crucifixion was from other people but it is the sins of the world he takes on.

If I was told that, unasked, someone had paid a parking fine my great-grandad had supposedly incurred, and that in return I should engage in organised grovelling to this person with the promise of unverifiable claims of rewards in a supposed afterlife thrown in to sweeten the deal I’d tell them to fuck off.   

Wouldn’t you?

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Vlad,

If I was told that, unasked, someone had paid a parking fine my great-grandad had supposedly incurred, and that in return I should engage in organised grovelling to this person with the promise of unverifiable claims of rewards in a supposed afterlife thrown in to sweeten the deal I’d tell them to fuck off.   

Wouldn’t you?

I think you misunderstand. Jesus didn't just pay for the sins of those involved in the crucifixion he pays for the sins  of the world, and it's not just a parking ticket, it's what corrodes and eventually destroys us. Can you explain not just being ungrateful but resentful with it, not just to me but to yourself?

The way is now open to God if that is what we choose.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Repeating the idiotic 'justification' will not make it make any sense. And those people at the crucifixion were carrying out God's plan.

It's funny, they seem to be acting out of self interest.
I think it was Socrates years before in another country who suggested that a perfect human being were they to appear would be set upon and killed as a dead certainty.

[Gordon]

I think you misunderstand. Jesus didn't just pay for the sins of those involved in the crucifixion he pays for the sins  of the world, and it's not just a parking ticket, it's what corrodes and eventually destroys us. I don't understand not just being ungrateful but resentful with it.

The notion that this 'Jesus' has got anything to do with my 'sins', or as I call them 'mistakes', is both intrusive (my mistakes are no business of this 'Jesus') as well as being a ludicrous notion.

The way is now open to God if that is what we choose.

I choose to treat 'God' as just another superstitious fantasy - you may as well suggest that perhaps my having a word with Gandalf would be useful.

[Stranger]

I think you misunderstand.

I think you misunderstand.

Jesus didn't just pay for the sins of those involved in the crucifixion he pays for the sins  of the world, and it's not just a parking ticket, it's what corrodes and eventually destroys us.

Again, repeating the same old insane non-justification is not magically going to make it make sense. It's twisted, perverse, and devoid of anything remotely like justice or goodness.

[Walt Zingmatilder]

I think you misunderstand.

Again, repeating the same old insane non-justification is not magically going to make it make sense. It's twisted, perverse, and devoid of anything remotely like justice or goodness.

A lot of assertions in there, care to justify?