Introductions

[Sassy]

Then why are you using his signature?

http://www.religionethics.co.uk/index.php?action=profile;u=53

Seems strange you would use the signature of another member...

Oak doesn't have the copyright on either the Triple Moon symbol ---> )O( <---
or on 'BB' which stands for "Blessed Be"; neither is he the only Pagan in the world who uses them.

Here and elsewhere ONLY Oak King used it. Even on the BBC he was the only person who used it.

As Oak King is still a member it isn't right for him to use his signature. Let him answer for himself as to why he is copying another persons own signature?

[Sassy]

Hello all,
I am a Muslim Ex-Revert, which, if you twist your head around twice, means I converted to, participated in, and then left Islam. Dizzy yet?
I was a very religious hijaabi, which for those of you who are not up on your Arabic, means I covered my hair and followed the Sunnah. Oops. More Arabic. Hard to get away from it, isn't it?
I spent years in Purdah (phew, not Arabic!), which means I never left the house without express permission or a chaperone.
If this sounds like abuse, or a violation of human rights, you would be correct. It didn't help to have an abusive spouse, which makes Purdah a living hell. But that was his right, his culture. Islam is very supportive of a man's rights.
When I escaped with the children, I found myself safe, but so culturally confused that even I can't make heads nor tails of it. I moved to a monoculture area, Muslim-free, to get a handle on my Stockholm syndrome and reintegrate myself and my family into the mainstream society. Fear is a habit, though, it seems it has come with me.
Now I force myself to speak in English as often as possible, but every time I get a little stressed, I regress and use the languages I spoke in my home for the past two decades, which, to make it even more pathetic, I am not even fluent in. It's a short circuit, a stress reaction. Probably a symptom of PTSD. It positively creeps me out. I can't seem to help it.
This is where I reassure everyone that I am in therapy. This is where I make it clear that the children are, too. Only one of my children is still in therapy for PTSD.
Let's not talk about the damaging effects of long term gender segregation. Not right now, anyway.
I left everyone, my reputation, my possessions, a few years ago. I had a lovely reputation in my former community. I mean, "such a nice lady, to never leave the house! Every wife should be so good! Do you have a sister, for my son?" It was addictive, the attention. Now I know what they are saying. They are saying, everyone I ever loved, that they always knew I was bad. They always knew I was not a good person. That I will get the hellfire. These lovely people, who I gave my sweat and tears and cookies to, despise me now. Never mind that I left the community, leaving Islam is a death sentence. Those who leave, must be killed. It's Shariah, Islamic law for those of you sitting through all the Arabic.
I don't want to be good anymore. I want to be right. I am now doing the right things, not the "good" things I used to do.
I find myself in a time warp. Suddenly I am back in a culture and using a language I have not used since high school. It's disconcerting.
Just two months ago, I was much, much worse. Finding love and conversation with Arch Stanton has helped me immensely. So has conversing on forums. Free conversation with intelligent people, no babysitters required. Much appreciated. I used to be on Ali Sina's forum, years and years ago, doing dawah (Arabic!) to keep Muslims in the faith. My apologies to him. No one here need fear that from me, anymore.
Thank you,
three

How did you leave. How would you get a passport when it would be out of date?
Surely your husband held the purse strings?
I find it interesting can you tell us what you had to do to leave and how? Were you not scared for your children.
How did you get passports for them as they are not British citizens and that would require the embassy's help?

[three]

Hello all,
I am a Muslim Ex-Revert, which, if you twist your head around twice, means I converted to, participated in, and then left Islam. Dizzy yet?
I was a very religious hijaabi, which for those of you who are not up on your Arabic, means I covered my hair and followed the Sunnah. Oops. More Arabic. Hard to get away from it, isn't it?
I spent years in Purdah (phew, not Arabic!), which means I never left the house without express permission or a chaperone.
If this sounds like abuse, or a violation of human rights, you would be correct. It didn't help to have an abusive spouse, which makes Purdah a living hell. But that was his right, his culture. Islam is very supportive of a man's rights.
When I escaped with the children, I found myself safe, but so culturally confused that even I can't make heads nor tails of it. I moved to a monoculture area, Muslim-free, to get a handle on my Stockholm syndrome and reintegrate myself and my family into the mainstream society. Fear is a habit, though, it seems it has come with me.
Now I force myself to speak in English as often as possible, but every time I get a little stressed, I regress and use the languages I spoke in my home for the past two decades, which, to make it even more pathetic, I am not even fluent in. It's a short circuit, a stress reaction. Probably a symptom of PTSD. It positively creeps me out. I can't seem to help it.
This is where I reassure everyone that I am in therapy. This is where I make it clear that the children are, too. Only one of my children is still in therapy for PTSD.
Let's not talk about the damaging effects of long term gender segregation. Not right now, anyway.
I left everyone, my reputation, my possessions, a few years ago. I had a lovely reputation in my former community. I mean, "such a nice lady, to never leave the house! Every wife should be so good! Do you have a sister, for my son?" It was addictive, the attention. Now I know what they are saying. They are saying, everyone I ever loved, that they always knew I was bad. They always knew I was not a good person. That I will get the hellfire. These lovely people, who I gave my sweat and tears and cookies to, despise me now. Never mind that I left the community, leaving Islam is a death sentence. Those who leave, must be killed. It's Shariah, Islamic law for those of you sitting through all the Arabic.
I don't want to be good anymore. I want to be right. I am now doing the right things, not the "good" things I used to do.
I find myself in a time warp. Suddenly I am back in a culture and using a language I have not used since high school. It's disconcerting.
Just two months ago, I was much, much worse. Finding love and conversation with Arch Stanton has helped me immensely. So has conversing on forums. Free conversation with intelligent people, no babysitters required. Much appreciated. I used to be on Ali Sina's forum, years and years ago, doing dawah (Arabic!) to keep Muslims in the faith. My apologies to him. No one here need fear that from me, anymore.
Thank you,
three

How did you leave. How would you get a passport when it would be out of date?
Surely your husband held the purse strings?
I find it interesting can you tell us what you had to do to leave and how? Were you not scared for your children.
How did you get passports for them as they are not British citizens and that would require the embassy's help?

I did not need any passports. Everything happened in my own country.
Of course he had the purse strings. I was not allowed any strings at all.
What I had to do to leave was go with the police when they came, then go to a safe house and jump through their hoops while the criminal case progressed to a point where I could be relocated.
Of course I was scared for them. Luckily they are mostly better. I can get them care now that I could not access before.
I am not British, neither are any of the children. But I am in love with a Brit. So much so, I could almost send flowers to the British embassy. But that would be interpreted as baksheesh... I don't know the laws on that. But here bribery of government officials is an easy conviction.

[trippymonkey]

Dear three
<I don't know the laws on that. But here bribery of government officials is an easy conviction.>

Where is 'here'?

Nick

[Keturah]

As Oak King is still a member it isn't right for him to use his signature.

As a point of pedantry:  It isn't a signature.  It's just a couple of parentheses and a circle making merely a clinical diagram of an anus - as it looks to me, at least.   And that apart, there is no law against using the same signature as somebody else, but we do have rules against using the same (or similar) user name.

[Keturah]

I did not need any passports. Everything happened in my own country.
Of course he had the purse strings. I was not allowed any strings at all.
What I had to do to leave was go with the police when they came, then go to a safe house and jump through their hoops while the criminal case progressed to a point where I could be relocated.
Of course I was scared for them. Luckily they are mostly better. I can get them care now that I could not access before.
I am not British, neither are any of the children.

It sounds as though you had an awful time Three, but I'm glad for you and the children that you're all now safe.

[Arch Stanton]

Dear three
<I don't know the laws on that. But here bribery of government officials is an easy conviction.>

Where is 'here'?

Nick

Nick, please ask these questions and the follow-ups, I beg of you. I have and I am none the wiser, when I use the term cosmopolitan, you will know what I mean. I have heard 3 accents so far. At one stage I asked the 3 online if the 3 that I speak to me on the end of the phone is the same or person, or are there two/three of you.

Like a teenager on a phone lol, then this formidable brain on the forums, it did/does not compute.

I await with bated breath, I will have someone else's pov.

[three]

Dear three
<I don't know the laws on that. But here bribery of government officials is an easy conviction.>

Where is 'here'?

Nick

In the US. Where I am in the country there is much less corruption, but in places like California the bribery issue is so prevalent that the social workers are only placed for a year and then they are shuffled to another office. You cannot even give a police officer a donut, I think pretty much everywhere.

[three]

I did not need any passports. Everything happened in my own country.
Of course he had the purse strings. I was not allowed any strings at all.
What I had to do to leave was go with the police when they came, then go to a safe house and jump through their hoops while the criminal case progressed to a point where I could be relocated.
Of course I was scared for them. Luckily they are mostly better. I can get them care now that I could not access before.
I am not British, neither are any of the children.

It sounds as though you had an awful time Three, but I'm glad for you and the children that you're all now safe.

Thank you, I am pretty happy about it myself.

[three]

Dear three
<I don't know the laws on that. But here bribery of government officials is an easy conviction.>

Where is 'here'?

Nick

Nick, please ask these questions and the follow-ups, I beg of you. I have and I am none the wiser, when I use the term cosmopolitan, you will know what I mean. I have heard 3 accents so far. At one stage I asked the 3 online if the 3 that I speak to me on the end of the phone is the same or person, or are there two/three of you.

Like a teenager on a phone lol, then this formidable brain on the forums, it did/does not compute.

I await with bated breath, I will have someone else's pov.

I don't think having different accents in different languages or situations would make one cosmopolitan. In my honest opinion, that makes one definitely crazy, don't you think so?
The children asked me over a year ago to speak in English only, and that was when they could still answer in another tongue. They have forgotten, now, how to speak another language, but they understand me still. We all had a crash course in culture and language in the last few years.

I did tell you that the way I speak and the way I write are not the same. It is true, and now you know it. Also everything is dependent on how much coffee I have had, how fast I drank it, and whether I ate with it or not. I think you are right about that, I probably have a real addiction going on. Maybe it becomes a living thing inside of me. Perhaps I am experiencing possession. It is not me, it is the coffee. That explains everything.

[Keturah]

Welcome back Bashful Anthony.  I hope all is well in your world.  Good to see you again. 

[Gonnagle]

Dear Keturah,

Where!!

Bashers you old Goat are you still alive

Gonnagle.

[Hope]

Dear Keturah,

Where!!

Bashers you old Goat are you still alive

Gonnagle.

According to his profile, he hasn't posted yet since his return.

[Anchorman]

Welcome back Bashful Anthony.  I hope all is well in your world.  Good to see you again. 

Tony's back?
Great!
Welcome back, BA!

[OH MY WORLD!]

Welcome back BA!!! Hope you plan to stick around.

[Elevenses81]

I've been an existentialist since my teens, as much because it just 'feels right' than for any deep philosophical engagement, but I value above all things the need to confront the consequences of personal freedom and to accept fully the responsibilities and burdens that it brings.

[Jack Knave]

Dear Keturah,

Where!!

Bashers you old Goat are you still alive

Gonnagle.

According to his profile, he hasn't posted yet since his return.

I wasn't aware the R&E forum had posting police. What's the fine if you don't post?

[Owlswing]

I've been an existentialist since my teens, as much because it just 'feels right' than for any deep philosophical engagement, but I value above all things the need to confront the consequences of personal freedom and to accept fully the responsibilities and burdens that it brings.

A nice statement of pagan pholosophy.

[Elevenses81]

Are you taking the piss?

[Owlswing]

Are you taking the piss?

. . . the need to confront the consequences of personal freedom and to accept fully the responsibilities and burdens that it brings.

Not in the slightest!

The statement above is one of the basic tenets of pagan philosophy - taking personal responsibility for your decisions, actions and the consequences of those decisions and actions upon both yourself and others rather than blaming some anthropormorphic personification of evil.

[Elevenses81]

I don't need a plethora of water or seasonal deities to comfort me thank you very much. Can you imagine what it means to confront one's aloneness without a safety blanket? I guess not. I'm not belittling you or vour tradition in any way, indeed it sounds to have solid morality, but don't imagine for a moment that your notions of 'freedom' have anything in common with mine.

I don't really like to be labelled with any 'ist' or 'ism', but existentialism is a useful contrivance if people ask. People might assume I'm atheist, agnostic or whatever, but in truth I just accept the mystery at the centre of my life and live it as best I can. Surprisingly, I could even accept notions of an afterlife and indeed I have had some very odd 'psychic' events in my life both as a child and an adult as I expect many people have. These are perplexing, but unlike Carl Jung, I'm too sensible to go down some unlit road chasing them into insanity as he did.

Matthew, the one overriding sense I gained from these psychic events was the absolute sense of 'aloneness' in the sense that a deity might shoulder. If there is a 'top' deity, pagan or otherwise, we can be sure that She is lonelier than any of us.   

[Owlswing]

I don't need a plethora of water or seasonal deities to comfort me thank you very much. Can you imagine what it means to confront one's aloneness without a safety blanket? I guess not. I'm not belittling you or vour tradition in any way, indeed it sounds to have solid morality, but don't imagine for a moment that your notions of 'freedom' have anything in common with mine.

I don't really like to be labelled with any 'ist' or 'ism', but existentialism is a useful contrivance if people ask. People might assume I'm atheist, agnostic or whatever, but in truth I just accept the mystery at the centre of my life and live it as best I can. Surprisingly, I could even accept notions of an afterlife and indeed I have had some very odd 'psychic' events in my life both as a child and an adult as I expect many people have. These are perplexing, but unlike Carl Jung, I'm too sensible to go down some unlit road chasing them into insanity as he did.

Matthew, the one overriding sense I gained from these psychic events was the absolute sense of 'aloneness' in the sense that a deity might shoulder. If there is a 'top' deity, pagan or otherwise, we can be sure that She is lonelier than any of us.   

You have my sympathy for your situation; however, I was in total ignorance of it (being a pagan and a witch but not using a crystal ball) when I made my comment which was not a judgement, or a suggestion that you are pagan or anything else it was merely expressing my agreement with your philosophy and giving my reason for my agreement.

It was not in any way, shape or form intended to offend.

If it did I will just have to take responsibility for that consequence, won't I?

[Elevenses81]

I don't need a plethora of water or seasonal deities to comfort me thank you very much. Can you imagine what it means to confront one's aloneness without a safety blanket? I guess not. I'm not belittling you or vour tradition in any way, indeed it sounds to have solid morality, but don't imagine for a moment that your notions of 'freedom' have anything in common with mine.

I don't really like to be labelled with any 'ist' or 'ism', but existentialism is a useful contrivance if people ask. People might assume I'm atheist, agnostic or whatever, but in truth I just accept the mystery at the centre of my life and live it as best I can. Surprisingly, I could even accept notions of an afterlife and indeed I have had some very odd 'psychic' events in my life both as a child and an adult as I expect many people have. These are perplexing, but unlike Carl Jung, I'm too sensible to go down some unlit road chasing them into insanity as he did.

Matthew, the one overriding sense I gained from these psychic events was the absolute sense of 'aloneness' in the sense that a deity might shoulder. If there is a 'top' deity, pagan or otherwise, we can be sure that She is lonelier than any of us.   

You have my sympathy for your situation; however, I was in total ignorance of it (being a pagan and a witch but not using a crystal ball) when I made my comment which was not a judgement, or a suggestion that you are pagan or anything else it was merely expressing my agreement with your philosophy and giving my reason for my agreement.

It was not in any way, shape or form intended to offend.

If it did I will just have to take responsibility for that consequence, won't I?

Matthew,
   forget it. I was just having one of my grumpy moments and very unfair to load you with it. Apologies.

elevenses
 

[trippymonkey]

Elevenses actually made a quite brilliant observation about a TOP deity being alone etc.
How WOULD one feel if there was 'nothing' above you & nothing like you?

Might one presume that's WHY we all exist in the first place so that 'upper' deity might know itself I've read/heard this before.

Sensible replies please, IF THAT'S possible HA HA HA

Nick

[Elevenses81]

Nick,

How WOULD one feel if there was 'nothing' above you & nothing like you.

Doesn't this define our uniqueness, something that seems to scare us so that we reach for mummy's skirts?


  what I have experienced has been reported by others who have meditated or taken some narcotic and felt themselves 'losing it' and feeling like David Bowie's Major Tom drifting away. I never felt any of that - just the 'aloneness' bit. They just happened to me, but I'm open-minded enough to accept that they were just bio-chemical events. They seemed coherent, but the sub-conscious is a powerful component and can probably dramatise our psyche's contents in startling ways. I certainly wouldn't make too much of it, but interesting nevertheless.