Author Topic: Evidence  (Read 47599 times)

Sebastian Toe

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #125 on: June 07, 2015, 11:32:05 PM »
A fragment of wood found 300m deep in a kimberlite pipe, which supposedly erupted 53 million years ago, still contains cellulose and amber.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0045537
Before I ask if you have actually read the document.

What is your point?

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Spud

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #126 on: June 08, 2015, 03:53:48 PM »
A fragment of wood found 300m deep in a kimberlite pipe, which supposedly erupted 53 million years ago, still contains cellulose and amber.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0045537
Before I ask if you have actually read the document.

What is your point?



The OP says, "I think perhaps it would be useful to have an 'evidence' thread, incuding the info about Egypt, C14 and other dating methods, geological info et al, so it is available to refer to when the creationists echo their unfounded assertions."

If that wood is unpermineralized, as the article says, then 53 million years is a long time for the cellulose to remain intact.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 11:45:59 AM by Spud »

Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #127 on: July 20, 2015, 08:11:54 PM »
'S amazing wot techy stuff can do.
http://archaeology.org/news/3496-150720-ein-gedi-scroll


This would be just a mouldering fragment otherwise.
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jeremyp

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #128 on: July 20, 2015, 08:26:57 PM »
A fragment of wood found 300m deep in a kimberlite pipe, which supposedly erupted 53 million years ago, still contains cellulose and amber.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0045537
Before I ask if you have actually read the document.

What is your point?



The OP says, "I think perhaps it would be useful to have an 'evidence' thread, incuding the info about Egypt, C14 and other dating methods, geological info et al, so it is available to refer to when the creationists echo their unfounded assertions."

If that wood is unpermineralized, as the article says, then 53 million years is a long time for the cellulose to remain intact.
It is a long time, which is why they wrote an article about it.  They do have an explanation of why the cellulose has survived (basically it was a sterile environment, so no bacteria to break it down).

How much carbon-14 do you think is left in it btw?
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Spud

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #129 on: July 21, 2015, 08:24:16 AM »
A fragment of wood found 300m deep in a kimberlite pipe, which supposedly erupted 53 million years ago, still contains cellulose and amber.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0045537
Before I ask if you have actually read the document.

What is your point?



The OP says, "I think perhaps it would be useful to have an 'evidence' thread, incuding the info about Egypt, C14 and other dating methods, geological info et al, so it is available to refer to when the creationists echo their unfounded assertions."

If that wood is unpermineralized, as the article says, then 53 million years is a long time for the cellulose to remain intact.
It is a long time, which is why they wrote an article about it.  They do have an explanation of why the cellulose has survived (basically it was a sterile environment, so no bacteria to break it down).

Why didn't it turn into coal?

Quote
How much carbon-14 do you think is left in it btw?

It would be interesting to test it for C-14. If it's that old there wouldn't be any left.

jeremyp

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #130 on: July 21, 2015, 01:44:58 PM »

Why didn't it turn into coal?


I expect the necessary heat and pressure wasn't there.

Quote
Quote
How much carbon-14 do you think is left in it btw?

It would be interesting to test it for C-14. If it's that old there wouldn't be any left.

Pretty sure that is correct.  It would be over 9,000 half lives which is way too long for there to be any 14C atoms left, except for any contamination that might occur after it was dug up.
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #131 on: July 23, 2015, 10:25:14 PM »
Latest archaeology from Israel suggests early experiments in farming as early as c 23,000 BC
http://archaeology.org/news/3507-150723-israel-early-farming
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Udayana

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #132 on: July 24, 2015, 01:47:52 PM »
Interesting find, wow!
Ah, but I was so much older then ... I'm younger than that now

Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #133 on: August 11, 2015, 10:11:05 AM »
 I'm the first in line when it comes to throwing a wobbly over the continuous stream of 'Tut guff' written by people with an over active imagination and an under active sense of history.
When this theory hit the 'net a fortnight ago, I was all for deleting it - till I saw who was behind it.

http://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21660503-tantalising-clue-location-long-sought-pharaonic-tomb-what-lies-beneath

Nick Reeves is a very well respected Egyptologist, and has written authoritatively on the Valley of the Kings (where he has excavated an undisturbed tomb), as well as the outstanding "Akhenaten: Egypt's false prophet" which, until the DNA analysis of the royal mummies in 2010, was regarded as groundbreaking thought provoking material (and his conclusions on Atenism are still held in high regard)
Basically, Reeves postulates that there are a further two, yet unopened, rooms in KV 62 - Tutankhamun's ramshackle, cobbled-together tomb.
One, he says, is a burial - a burial of Nefertiti as King.
I disagree with this bit - I'm in the camp which accepts a candidate for Nefertiti's mummy already exists, but the evidence Reeves presents demands investigation.
You can read the actual paper here - it's 51 pages long, but worth a read.
https://www.academia.edu/14406398/The_Burial_of_Nefertiti_2015_
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #134 on: August 22, 2015, 06:50:59 PM »
Here's an interview with Nick Reeves (in an Egyptian English-speaking newspaper article)
http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/0/137945/Heritage/0/Interview-with-Nicholas-Reev
es-An-archaeologist-on.aspx
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #135 on: August 25, 2015, 10:13:46 PM »
......And the latest on KV 62 (Tutankhamun):
Even the Director of Antiquities in Cairo is tentatively agreeing with Revess...
http://luxortimesmagazine.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/exclusive-egyptian-minister-of_25.html?m=1

Most of the Egyptian forums and groups are now in meltdown mode.
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #136 on: September 10, 2015, 11:51:36 AM »
This appears to be evidence for proto-hominid 'ritual' inhumation as early as three million years ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34192447
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jeremyp

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #137 on: September 10, 2015, 04:38:40 PM »
This appears to be evidence for proto-hominid 'ritual' inhumation as early as three million years ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34192447

Let's be a little bit cautious, three million years is the older end of the possible range which is form 3million years ago to 300k years ago.

Also, it might not be a new species.  These may be H. erectus.

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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #138 on: September 10, 2015, 06:54:10 PM »
This appears to be evidence for proto-hominid 'ritual' inhumation as early as three million years ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34192447

Let's be a little bit cautious, three million years is the older end of the possible range which is form 3million years ago to 300k years ago.

Also, it might not be a new species.  These may be H. erectus.


Either way, that these hominids appear to have exhibited some form of ritualistic behaviour regarding their dead, is fascinating.
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #139 on: September 29, 2015, 10:00:51 AM »
     It seems increasingly likely that there is something behind the painted walls of the burial chamber of KV 62,
Stand by for a media frenzy.
http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/147582.aspx


And, taken from a FB post - with no copyright needed

Here's a report on the latest findings at the scene of Tutankhamun's tomb, from a friend of mine on a Face Book group.:
Bernard M. Adams.  posting to The Society for the Study of Egyptian Antiquities. .
Tutankhamun Tomb KV 62  Hidden Rooms
Dear Friends,
39c
What a wonderful and exciting morning at the Kings Valley. People gathered at the shelter in front of KV62. Those people included the Press from BBC TV, National Geographic, French TV and many Newspaper journalists. Then the dignities arrived and everyone got the chance to ask question and to discuss with Dr. Nicholas Reeves his theories and research. The morning went very well with everyone enjoying the moment and perhaps, all hoping in the realisation of their being at the beginning of something big in history.
We all had the chance to enter the tomb, take photos and to roughly see where the proposed Hidden Rooms might be, according to Dr. Reeves. In the tomb there were many officials, some wearing the SCA (Supreme Council of Antiquities) white coats. These men were mostly in the small anti chamber to the East of the tomb and the burial chamber where they were checking the laser images against the walls.
Those attending the public relations meeting were, Dr. Mamdouh El-Damaty - Minister of Antiquities, Mohamed Sayed Bard - Governor of Luxor, Ahmed Khalifa - Director of Public Relations, Ahmed Nouby Moussa - SIS Manager and other officials and Directors from different areas.
Dr. Mamdouh El-Damaty, Minister of Antiquities, agrees that Dr. Reeves has found something because they have found already the changes that show us that behind these walls we have to find other chambers. But, Nefertiti "I doubt". He thinks we have another discovery and says, why not the Queen Tiye? (Tut's Mother) It's another theory, or it could be a Prince or another royal member of the family of Tutankhamun. It's a double tomb but which one? Which person? We will have to wait until we see the results.
Dr. Nicholas Reeves explained his ideas and theory for there being further rooms in Tut's tomb. He says "I go where the evidence takes me" and the evidence at the moment suggests two things, it suggests there may be another doorway behind the West wall of the burial chamber. There may be another doorway behind the North wall. The West wall, if there is a chamber behind the West wall, then that corresponds to a Tutankhamun period storeroom. So there would be another Tutankhamun storeroom that has not been discovered before. If there is a chamber behind the North wall, the answer is of who or what is behind it. If you look at the Horemheb tomb TT57, you go down, you reach the well and on the opposite wall, you have a painted decoration, which has been broken down in antiquities time but you can see that the God Horus is cut through, you can see that this original decoration, the entire wall has been a disguise to hide its existence. If I am right, I think this is a similar situation. This is a disguised wall. Dr. Reeves had also stated that after his investigations of the tombs ceiling, it shows that it went beyond the North and West walls. He is now convinced his theory of further rooms is correct.
Ref: Dr. Nicholas Reeves Paper -  accademia.edu.
A Japanese team will arrive within a few months after permissions are granted from the authorities. They will use GPR (Ground Penetrating Radar) The Japanese Archaeologist has had great success in South America using this method, it was also used here in the Kings Valley at KV63. Dr. Mamdouh Al-Damaty has promised that on the 4th November, the day the tomb was discovered by Howard Carter, the radar results will be announced.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 01:24:48 PM by Anchorman »
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #140 on: October 31, 2016, 09:10:16 PM »
Is there or isn't there another room in KV 62? Things have gone political recently, and in-fighting in the echelons of the Egyptology world has meant that little more has been done since the inconclusive scans a few months ago. Now, to add petrol to the flame, self-publicising plagiarist Zahi Hawass has been put in charge of new scans.... a bit like putting Attilla the Hun in charge of flower arranging. http://luxor-news.blogspot.co.uk/2016/10/zahi-on-new-scan-of-tutankhamun-this.html?m=1
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #141 on: December 08, 2016, 10:17:18 AM »
They've found an ark. OK, nothing to do with the Bible (sorry, YECs), but a fascinating find from the high point of Egypt's Middle Kingdom, and, to be honest, I didn't know where else to post the link..... https://penncurrent.upenn.edu/news/penn-archaeologist-discovers-ancient-egyptian-boat-in-middle-of-desert
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #142 on: December 15, 2016, 11:21:58 PM »
 Piramesse. One of my favourite sites in Egypt is  Djanet , or Tanis, in the Nile Delta, one of the great capitals of the ancient world. I have fond memories of being part of a dig there for a brief time in 1980. That's unfamiliar to the uninitiated, but the necropolis of the dyn XXI kings was one of the greatest discoveries of Egyptology, and for those in love with ancient bling, the gold and silverware found there was stunning. However Tanis was actually constructed from the remains of Pi-Ramesse - Biblical 'Ramses' - modern Tell Qantir -which was relocated en mass as the branch of the Nile on which it was situated silted up. An incredible reconstruction project - though it meant that the actual site of Pi-Ramesse was unknown till the last few decades. Here's a link to Tanis for anyone interested.  https://www.ucl.ac.uk/qatar/research/qantir-piramesse.
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #143 on: December 21, 2016, 09:52:07 PM »
      The third Intermediate and late periods of Egypt are a pet interest of mine - here's an intriguing article about the Jewish settlement on the strategically important island of Elephantine in the south of the country - and the fact that the colonists built a temple to YHWH around the fifth century BC which seems to have been modelled on the Temple of Solomon in Jerusalem. http://www.ancientsudan.org/articles_jewish_elephantine.html Anyone interested in this matter might like to google "Elephantine papyrus', where many articles and translations can be found under that heading relating to the colony.
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #144 on: January 14, 2017, 05:17:00 PM »
 I;ll just post this here. New discoveries of middle ranking tombs at the site at Gebel el Sisila, Egypt, dating to mid eighteenth dynasty (around 1600 BC) And good pics as well. http://www.lunduniversity.lu.se/article/twelve-new-tombs-discovered-in-gebel-el-silsila-egypt
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jeremyp

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #145 on: January 14, 2017, 07:55:53 PM »
Anchorman, have you listened to any of Dan Carlin's King of Kings podcasts? They aspire to tell the story of the Persian Empire from a Persian point of view (i.e. not simply as being the bad guys of Greek history).

I'd be interested to know what you think as somebody who knows something of the period.
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #146 on: January 14, 2017, 09:51:30 PM »
Anchorman, have you listened to any of Dan Carlin's King of Kings podcasts? They aspire to tell the story of the Persian Empire from a Persian point of view (i.e. not simply as being the bad guys of Greek history).

I'd be interested to know what you think as somebody who knows something of the period.




The Persians were the superpower of their day, just as the AssyrioBabylonians, Hittites, and Egyptians had been.
Their efficient if brutal conquest of the Meduiterranean and use of local rulers to administer their conquests meant that, on the whole, their 'original' empire was relatively benign.
The policy led to various rebellions - Egypt's was successful for a while, spawning dyn XXVIII-XXX, but Persia was far to strong to resist in the end.
Of course Alexander's propaganda merchants got to work making them out to be the villains of all villains; but in reality they were little different than the Macedonians.
Possibly to our eyes, they might even have appeared more 'modern' in their ideas concerning women, local government and even law codes.
The instability of their ruling family was their ultimate downfall - had their last rulers been as strong as Darius or Xerxes, Alexander could never have conquered in the way he did.
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Anchorman

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #147 on: February 28, 2017, 08:51:57 PM »
Interesting insight into paleolithic proto-cultivation in what is now Galilee. http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/1.772111
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Spud

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Re: Evidence
« Reply #148 on: April 14, 2017, 09:29:59 PM »
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rwolf/5137667115/in/photostream/

Nearly 1.5 billion years of geological time missing between Proterozoic and Jurassic rock, yet the contact surface is flat. It looks more as though there was very little time between the lower and upper layers being deposited.

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