Pagan study/mentoring

[Rhiannon]

Anyone undertaken any formal - or informal - study? Thought it might be handy to have a Recommendations page and to share experiences.

[horsethorn]

Anyone undertaken any formal - or informal - study? Thought it might be handy to have a Recommendations page and to share experiences.

I did some in my teens - before there were any 'formal' ones

I have considered trying some of the Pag Fed or OBOD (et al) ones, but I think I'd probably end up arguing with them!

I'd be interested to hear from others who have tried some of those courses.

ht

[Rhiannon]

I've started with the first level (Bard) OBOD course - ages ago in fact. The resources are good but I haven't had time to take advantage of some of what it offers. Maybe if I start posting about it I'll do more - being a mum there is always something else that needs doing.    Having a personal mentor is optional so you could just argue with yourself. 

I came across this earlier today after spotting her books on Amazon. Looks interesting.

http://www.elensentier.co.uk/rainbow_warriors1.htm

Glennie Kindred also offers mentoring I believe.

[Angry Keltoi]

Anyone undertaken any formal - or informal - study? Thought it might be handy to have a Recommendations page and to share experiences.

I've got the materials for the BDO's Bardic course but like you I haven't had much time available to actually look at it.  Now that college is close to finishing I'll have more time though.

[Rhiannon]

Yeah, we've got a two month school break coming up, that should give me a lot more time, too. 

[Gonnagle]

Dear Rhiannon,

What you need is a Pagan hotline they seem to be all the rage just now, it could run in conjunction with Horsethorns Pagan bus campaign.

Gonnagle.

[horsethorn]

Dear Rhiannon,

What you need is a Pagan hotline they seem to be all the rage just now, it could run in conjunction with Horsethorns Pagan bus campaign.

Gonnagle.

That's a good idea - we could have a recorded message saying "Learn to think for yourself... As long as you're not harming anyone else, it's up to you what you believe... Try to avoid books by people who use pseudo-first-nation names... Don't believe everything you hear..."

Any additional suggestions?

ht

[horsethorn]

I came across this earlier today after spotting her books on Amazon. Looks interesting.

http://www.elensentier.co.uk/rainbow_warriors1.htm

Looking round the site, it seems pleasant enough, but there's something that's making me (besides the assertions that make my hackles rise)

Maybe it's just a bit too cuddly...

ht

[Gonnagle]

Dear Horsethorn,

Any additional suggestions?

Fed up with boring atheism, had enough of pesky Christians telling you hell awaits you, join the Pagans for fun and frolicks in the woods, thermal underwear not supplied.

Gonnagle.

[Rhiannon]

'If your enquiry relates to Wicca and witchcraft press 1. If your enquiry relates to Druidry press 2. If your enquiry relates to Heathenry press 3. If your enquiry relates to Shamanism press 4. If your enquiry relates to faeries press 5. If your enquiry relates to skyclad orgies press *0 and wait to speak to an advisor.'

[Rhiannon]

I came across this earlier today after spotting her books on Amazon. Looks interesting.

http://www.elensentier.co.uk/rainbow_warriors1.htm

Looking round the site, it seems pleasant enough, but there's something that's making me (besides the assertions that make my hackles rise)

Maybe it's just a bit too cuddly...

ht

Yes, the 144,00 Rainbow Warriors or whatever is a bit irritating. This  page is a bit better.

http://www.elensentier.co.uk/shaman_training.htm

I have bought one of her books so I'll let you know how fluffy she is. The element of what appeals to me in what I read of her book is her emphasis on the need to experience and devise for yourself, rather than using her words, her methods.

I'm not keen on fluffy but I am keen on accessibility. When I left Christianity  to follow the pagan path I was at a very low ebb emotionally and physically, and I had been so brainwashed against paganism I was also a bit scared. Someone suggested  Marian Green's A Witch Alone. She was so exacting and so full of warnings that I had to get this or that right or risk all kinds of dire consequences, that I nearly gave up. Now I love the book (probably in part because I am confident enough to  know what I agree with and what I don't) but it wasn't right for me then, I needed something gentler, and something that enabled me to find a spiritual practice that I could get straight into at a time when I really needed it. I know Cassandra Eason's reputation is for the lightweight, but what she sets out to do is give people, and especially women, the means to work change quickly in difficult circumstances. I find I prefer less ritual and more living, but I can see what she is trying to do.

There's no place for fluffy, but there is for gentle, and simple.

[Humph Warden Bennett]

From my limited research into this field, I get the impression that what one might perhaps call "modern" paganism is pretty much what the practitioner makes of it. There are no hard and fast rules, it's a matter of finding "the right path" for the individual.



I do recall Oak King on the "old" board writing that to join his covern involved a five year "apprenticeship", TBH if Oak & his gang have enough people willing to wait five years then I hope they have a good party at the end of the same.

[Angry Keltoi]

Dear Rhiannon,

What you need is a Pagan hotline they seem to be all the rage just now, it could run in conjunction with Horsethorns Pagan bus campaign.

Gonnagle.

That's a good idea - we could have a recorded message saying "Learn to think for yourself... As long as you're not harming anyone else, it's up to you what you believe... Try to avoid books by people who use pseudo-first-nation names... Don't believe everything you hear..."

Any additional suggestions?

ht

'Be the awen you wish to see in the world'?

[horsethorn]

I came across this earlier today after spotting her books on Amazon. Looks interesting.

http://www.elensentier.co.uk/rainbow_warriors1.htm

Looking round the site, it seems pleasant enough, but there's something that's making me (besides the assertions that make my hackles rise)

Maybe it's just a bit too cuddly...

ht

Yes, the 144,00 Rainbow Warriors or whatever is a bit irritating. This  page is a bit better.

http://www.elensentier.co.uk/shaman_training.htm

I have bought one of her books so I'll let you know how fluffy she is. The element of what appeals to me in what I read of her book is her emphasis on the need to experience and devise for yourself, rather than using her words, her methods.

I'm not keen on fluffy but I am keen on accessibility. When I left Christianity  to follow the pagan path I was at a very low ebb emotionally and physically, and I had been so brainwashed against paganism I was also a bit scared. Someone suggested  Marian Green's A Witch Alone. She was so exacting and so full of warnings that I had to get this or that right or risk all kinds of dire consequences, that I nearly gave up. Now I love the book (probably in part because I am confident enough to  know what I agree with and what I don't) but it wasn't right for me then, I needed something gentler, and something that enabled me to find a spiritual practice that I could get straight into at a time when I really needed it. I know Cassandra Eason's reputation is for the lightweight, but what she sets out to do is give people, and especially women, the means to work change quickly in difficult circumstances. I find I prefer less ritual and more living, but I can see what she is trying to do.

There's no place for fluffy, but there is for gentle, and simple.

Looking forward to the book report

Marian was probably a tough starter! Maybe someone like Rae Beth would have been better?

That said, I started off reading the occult classics in my dad's library. Dense, impenetrable, no pictures, tough going for a teenager, ploughing through Crowley's Magick et al - but it certainly made the early witchcraft/paganism books easy on my eye!

Yes, I've experimented with ritual (catholic experience came in useful!) but  over the years have simplified until most things become sacred; I still carry a 'ritual kit' still - some stones to mark the directions and a small Celtic cross to mark an altar. Most other things can be found when you need them or made up on the spot.

I've found Cassandra's books to be variable - she makes some good points, but often wraps them in fluff and counters them with some over-cuddly comments.

I won't get into the gender thing; I read a lot of Starhawk early on - she had a lot of useful things to say, but...

Recently, I've found Bobcat's books to be pitched about right between information and understanding.

'Less ritual, more living' - I like that, maybe we could add that to the recorded message

ht

[The Stranger]

Anyone undertaken any formal - or informal - study? Thought it might be handy to have a Recommendations page and to share experiences.

Informally (I guess) with Kenneth and Beryl Meadows at the Faculty of Shamanics.

[The Stranger]

Any additional suggestions?

You don't have the OTW. Don't expect your beliefs to be held by others.

[Rhiannon]

I came across this earlier today after spotting her books on Amazon. Looks interesting.

http://www.elensentier.co.uk/rainbow_warriors1.htm

Looking round the site, it seems pleasant enough, but there's something that's making me (besides the assertions that make my hackles rise)

Maybe it's just a bit too cuddly...

ht

Yes, the 144,00 Rainbow Warriors or whatever is a bit irritating. This  page is a bit better.

http://www.elensentier.co.uk/shaman_training.htm

I have bought one of her books so I'll let you know how fluffy she is. The element of what appeals to me in what I read of her book is her emphasis on the need to experience and devise for yourself, rather than using her words, her methods.

I'm not keen on fluffy but I am keen on accessibility. When I left Christianity  to follow the pagan path I was at a very low ebb emotionally and physically, and I had been so brainwashed against paganism I was also a bit scared. Someone suggested  Marian Green's A Witch Alone. She was so exacting and so full of warnings that I had to get this or that right or risk all kinds of dire consequences, that I nearly gave up. Now I love the book (probably in part because I am confident enough to  know what I agree with and what I don't) but it wasn't right for me then, I needed something gentler, and something that enabled me to find a spiritual practice that I could get straight into at a time when I really needed it. I know Cassandra Eason's reputation is for the lightweight, but what she sets out to do is give people, and especially women, the means to work change quickly in difficult circumstances. I find I prefer less ritual and more living, but I can see what she is trying to do.

There's no place for fluffy, but there is for gentle, and simple.

Looking forward to the book report

Marian was probably a tough starter! Maybe someone like Rae Beth would have been better?

That said, I started off reading the occult classics in my dad's library. Dense, impenetrable, no pictures, tough going for a teenager, ploughing through Crowley's Magick et al - but it certainly made the early witchcraft/paganism books easy on my eye!

Yes, I've experimented with ritual (catholic experience came in useful!) but  over the years have simplified until most things become sacred; I still carry a 'ritual kit' still - some stones to mark the directions and a small Celtic cross to mark an altar. Most other things can be found when you need them or made up on the spot.

I've found Cassandra's books to be variable - she makes some good points, but often wraps them in fluff and counters them with some over-cuddly comments.

I won't get into the gender thing; I read a lot of Starhawk early on - she had a lot of useful things to say, but...

Recently, I've found Bobcat's books to be pitched about right between information and understanding.

'Less ritual, more living' - I like that, maybe we could add that to the recorded message

ht

Hi, ht, the book has arrived - Elen Sentier's tone reminds me of Marian Green in fact - both of them remind me of a home ec. teacher I once had who wouldn't allow shop-bought pastry. Interesting to note Emma Restall Orr recommends one of her books in the blurb.

Rae Beth would definitely be my recommendation for a beginner in the craft, also her ideas suit me better - even Marian Green is a bit formal for me.

I quite like Starhawk, she is very much a product of her place and time. The gender thing...I don't know how it is to walk in a man's shoes but I do know what it is to be ashamed of my own femaleness, to feel threatened because some men saw it as their to take. I also know what it is to spend hours in church and study in  worship of a god addressed as He. There was and is a need for rebalance. How that works from a male perspective, I don't know.

Yes, Bobcat's are probably among the best titles out there now. I don't think they are easy reads necessarily.

[horsethorn]

Hi, ht, the book has arrived - Elen Sentier's tone reminds me of Marian Green in fact - both of them remind me of a home ec. teacher I once had who wouldn't allow shop-bought pastry. Interesting to note Emma Restall Orr recommends one of her books in the blurb.

Rae Beth would definitely be my recommendation for a beginner in the craft, also her ideas suit me better - even Marian Green is a bit formal for me.

I quite like Starhawk, she is very much a product of her place and time. The gender thing...I don't know how it is to walk in a man's shoes but I do know what it is to be ashamed of my own femaleness, to feel threatened because some men saw it as their to take. I also know what it is to spend hours in church and study in  worship of a god addressed as He. There was and is a need for rebalance. How that works from a male perspective, I don't know.

Yes, Bobcat's are probably among the best titles out there now. I don't think they are easy reads necessarily.

I think maybe I've developed a sensitivity to fluffiness - she may well not be, just using 'new age' language

Agreed on Rae - although I'd suggest quite a long list for beginners - including some of the early classics (recently re-read Wallis Budge's Egyptian Magic*), and people like RJ Stewart, Nigel Pennick and Kenneth Meadows.

I do like Starhawk's books, but I think she was part of the rebalancing that happened around then - the pendulum swinging past centre before it came back.

As a man, I can't talk about how it is to be a woman, but I know what being threatened by violence is like

One of my early issues with christianity was why a deity described as creating, loving, nurturing, etc was anthropomorphised as male; 'normal' ( ) conceptualisation would suggest that female would be more appropriate. Then I realised that it probably was more appropriate, because actually it was more a mechanic than creator, more aggressive than loving, more authoritarian than nurturing. I went through a period of goddess-following but have rebalanced that with some male deities now - although Rhiannon is still my patron (matron?) deity.

Another problem for me (with christianity) is the role models; 'perfect' behaviour - 'good' women being subservient, 'good' men being aggressive, etc - leaves no space for recognition of us as not always being perfect, or not wishing to behave in that way. I think that's one of the reasons I like the Welsh deities; they have flaws, and are nonconformist

ht

*Text now available online: http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ema/index.htm

[Sassy]

Anyone undertaken any formal - or informal - study? Thought it might be handy to have a Recommendations page and to share experiences.

Yeah with witches... but which one is witch.. LOL...

We learn what is necessary and it all leads back to the same place.. doesn't it.

[Angry Keltoi]

I went through a period of goddess-following but have rebalanced that with some male deities now - although Rhiannon is still my patron (matron?) deity.

And you're a married man!  Keep the details about your relationship with our Rhi off the forum please!

[OH MY WORLD!]

Good grief Mr. Horse,
The whole Bible is about our lack of perfection. lol
Must have been fun shopping for deities, do you shelf them and go shopping again when you tire of them?

[Rhiannon]

Hi, ht, the book has arrived - Elen Sentier's tone reminds me of Marian Green in fact - both of them remind me of a home ec. teacher I once had who wouldn't allow shop-bought pastry. Interesting to note Emma Restall Orr recommends one of her books in the blurb.

Rae Beth would definitely be my recommendation for a beginner in the craft, also her ideas suit me better - even Marian Green is a bit formal for me.

I quite like Starhawk, she is very much a product of her place and time. The gender thing...I don't know how it is to walk in a man's shoes but I do know what it is to be ashamed of my own femaleness, to feel threatened because some men saw it as their to take. I also know what it is to spend hours in church and study in  worship of a god addressed as He. There was and is a need for rebalance. How that works from a male perspective, I don't know.

Yes, Bobcat's are probably among the best titles out there now. I don't think they are easy reads necessarily.

I think maybe I've developed a sensitivity to fluffiness - she may well not be, just using 'new age' language

Agreed on Rae - although I'd suggest quite a long list for beginners - including some of the early classics (recently re-read Wallis Budge's Egyptian Magic*), and people like RJ Stewart, Nigel Pennick and Kenneth Meadows.

I do like Starhawk's books, but I think she was part of the rebalancing that happened around then - the pendulum swinging past centre before it came back.

As a man, I can't talk about how it is to be a woman, but I know what being threatened by violence is like

One of my early issues with christianity was why a deity described as creating, loving, nurturing, etc was anthropomorphised as male; 'normal' ( ) conceptualisation would suggest that female would be more appropriate. Then I realised that it probably was more appropriate, because actually it was more a mechanic than creator, more aggressive than loving, more authoritarian than nurturing. I went through a period of goddess-following but have rebalanced that with some male deities now - although Rhiannon is still my patron (matron?) deity.

Another problem for me (with christianity) is the role models; 'perfect' behaviour - 'good' women being subservient, 'good' men being aggressive, etc - leaves no space for recognition of us as not always being perfect, or not wishing to behave in that way. I think that's one of the reasons I like the Welsh deities; they have flaws, and are nonconformist

ht

*Text now available online: http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ema/index.htm

The fluffiness thing... had a chat with a shop owner about how crap Kindred Spirit is the other day - and she sells it!

I don't get on with early stuff, although maybe I tried the 'wrong' kind - Doreen Valiente's work leaves me cold.  I'm just not into anything ceremonial I guess.

A beginner's list would need to be broad I guess - I think Glennie Kindred is good for getting a flavour of nature-based spirituality, and Philip Carr Gomm for druidry.

I don't just do goddess worship either, I see the Lord as essential to partner the Lady, and to me he is the Horned God, the Lord of the Wildwood. My relationship with the Lady is more complex.

[horsethorn]

Good grief Mr. Horse,
The whole Bible is about our lack of perfection. lol

Yes, and how the god that created you that way is punishing you for being that way.

Must have been fun shopping for deities, do you shelf them and go shopping again when you tire of them?

Could you let me know where I said I 'go shopping' for deities?

ht

[horsethorn]

Hi, ht, the book has arrived - Elen Sentier's tone reminds me of Marian Green in fact - both of them remind me of a home ec. teacher I once had who wouldn't allow shop-bought pastry. Interesting to note Emma Restall Orr recommends one of her books in the blurb.

Rae Beth would definitely be my recommendation for a beginner in the craft, also her ideas suit me better - even Marian Green is a bit formal for me.

I quite like Starhawk, she is very much a product of her place and time. The gender thing...I don't know how it is to walk in a man's shoes but I do know what it is to be ashamed of my own femaleness, to feel threatened because some men saw it as their to take. I also know what it is to spend hours in church and study in  worship of a god addressed as He. There was and is a need for rebalance. How that works from a male perspective, I don't know.

Yes, Bobcat's are probably among the best titles out there now. I don't think they are easy reads necessarily.

I think maybe I've developed a sensitivity to fluffiness - she may well not be, just using 'new age' language

Agreed on Rae - although I'd suggest quite a long list for beginners - including some of the early classics (recently re-read Wallis Budge's Egyptian Magic*), and people like RJ Stewart, Nigel Pennick and Kenneth Meadows.

I do like Starhawk's books, but I think she was part of the rebalancing that happened around then - the pendulum swinging past centre before it came back.

As a man, I can't talk about how it is to be a woman, but I know what being threatened by violence is like

One of my early issues with christianity was why a deity described as creating, loving, nurturing, etc was anthropomorphised as male; 'normal' ( ) conceptualisation would suggest that female would be more appropriate. Then I realised that it probably was more appropriate, because actually it was more a mechanic than creator, more aggressive than loving, more authoritarian than nurturing. I went through a period of goddess-following but have rebalanced that with some male deities now - although Rhiannon is still my patron (matron?) deity.

Another problem for me (with christianity) is the role models; 'perfect' behaviour - 'good' women being subservient, 'good' men being aggressive, etc - leaves no space for recognition of us as not always being perfect, or not wishing to behave in that way. I think that's one of the reasons I like the Welsh deities; they have flaws, and are nonconformist

ht

*Text now available online: http://www.sacred-texts.com/egy/ema/index.htm

The fluffiness thing... had a chat with a shop owner about how crap Kindred Spirit is the other day - and she sells it!

Yes, it's not the best magazine out there... I prefer Sacred Hoop.

I don't get on with early stuff, although maybe I tried the 'wrong' kind - Doreen Valiente's work leaves me cold.  I'm just not into anything ceremonial I guess.

No, it wasn't the wrong kind - much of it came from the 'highbrow' school of writing (dense text, no pictures, academic style) and took some time to become 'readable'. It also focussed on the ritual aspects and tables of correspondences a bit too much. I tried the ritual stuff, but doing things that others had written never really held a lot of meaning for me.

A beginner's list would need to be broad I guess - I think Glennie Kindred is good for getting a flavour of nature-based spirituality, and Philip Carr Gomm for druidry.

Yes, I think my "beginner's list" would have just about every book I've read on it But then, we're all beginners...

I don't just do goddess worship either, I see the Lord as essential to partner the Lady, and to me he is the Horned God, the Lord of the Wildwood. My relationship with the Lady is more complex.

I try to avoid the word 'worship', as it doesn't really describe the relationship that well, I think. I always liked the old phrase 'look to' - I look to my deities (for advice, examples, etc).

ht

[horsethorn]

I went through a period of goddess-following but have rebalanced that with some male deities now - although Rhiannon is still my patron (matron?) deity.

And you're a married man!  Keep the details about your relationship with our Rhi off the forum please!

Yes, it's a bit weird for me, having one of my deities posting on the forum

ht