Should we leave the EEC?

[King Oberon]

We are better apart but better together in the EU... Alex where are you!

  Yeah.. better together apart exactly ! 

[Jack Knave]

What I was referring to the EU's share of global GDP.

See chart http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/statistics_explained/index.php/File:Share_of_world_GDP,_2002_and_2012_(%25,_based_on_current_international_PPP).png

It is forecast to go down to around 15% by 2020

A decrease in the proportion of global GDP does not necessarily mean that EU GDP is decreasing.

It could well be increasing.

Not a particularly useful example for you to use.

I never said or implied that. You need to learn how to understand English.

Really?

Then what do you understand by this, which is exactly what you said.

Except the EU GDP is going down year on year. It is virtually dead in the water. We need to leave it.

It is you who needs lessons in English.

I clarified this with Jaks. Read my responses to him.

[Jack Knave]

More to the point I'm not God or a god i.e. I'm not infallible.

No.  You're a liar.  You said that EU GDP is going down year on year and it isn't.

Here's a graph of EU GDP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union#mediaviewer/File:Graph_of_average_growth_rate_of_EU_countries_and_Euro_zone.png

It shows GDP growth in real terms, above 0 means GDP is going up, below 0 means it is going down. 

GDP went up in 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2010, 2011, 2013.

The predictions for 2014 onwards are positive.

Next time, do your research before putting your foot in your mouth.

As I said to Hollowby read my reply to Jaks.

[Jack Knave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497

According to a report by University College London's Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration, in 2011 EU economic migrants contributed a net £5bn to our economy in taxes. Given that our net annual 'fee' to the EU is £12bn [includes rebates], migrants can be viewed are an essential asset to our economy.

We have plenty of unemployed here so we don't need low skilled immigrants. And by giving our indigenous people the jobs we would also save on the benefits they have to claim because of all those unnecessary uncontrolled immigrants.

[Jack Knave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497

According to a report by University College London's Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration, in 2011 EU economic migrants contributed a net £5bn to our economy in taxes. Given that our net annual 'fee' to the EU is £12bn [includes rebates], migrants can be viewed are an essential asset to our economy.

There will still be migrants if we left the EU?

Moderator: content removed.

[Hope]

Moderator: quoted content removed.

Are you saying that there won't be immigrants if we leave the EU, Jack?  Don't forget that East Europeans emigrate to places other than the UK - including to places outside the EU.

Just as a thought for all of us, when we signed up to the EEC, we signed to freedom of movement for workers: when did this become freedom of movement for anyone?  Was it the Lisbon Treaty, or the Maastricht, or when?

Interesting article here - though it doesn't answer my question above - http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/explainers/what-eu-freedom-movement

[jakswan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497

According to a report by University College London's Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration, in 2011 EU economic migrants contributed a net £5bn to our economy in taxes. Given that our net annual 'fee' to the EU is £12bn [includes rebates], migrants can be viewed are an essential asset to our economy.

There will still be migrants if we left the EU?

Moderator: content removed.

Very cogent, such fine debating skills! Also insults used in a reply to a post that favours his own position. There is no need for me to hurl similar insults back at you, your posts do that for you sir.

[Jack Knave]

Moderator: quoted content removed.

Are you saying that there won't be immigrants if we leave the EU, Jack?  Don't forget that East Europeans emigrate to places other than the UK - including to places outside the EU.

Just as a thought for all of us, when we signed up to the EEC, we signed to freedom of movement for workers: when did this become freedom of movement for anyone?  Was it the Lisbon Treaty, or the Maastricht, or when?

Interesting article here - though it doesn't answer my question above - http://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/explainers/what-eu-freedom-movement

I don't know what I said as it has now been removed by some twat.

I believe the freedom of movement clause in the Treaty of Rome uses the term peoples not workers. 

[Jack Knave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497

According to a report by University College London's Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration, in 2011 EU economic migrants contributed a net £5bn to our economy in taxes. Given that our net annual 'fee' to the EU is £12bn [includes rebates], migrants can be viewed are an essential asset to our economy.

There will still be migrants if we left the EU?

Moderator: content removed.

Very cogent, such fine debating skills! Also insults used in a reply to a post that favours his own position. There is no need for me to hurl similar insults back at you, your posts do that for you sir.

I thought, Moderator: content removed., was very cogent and clarified and explicated the issue fully.

[Jack Knave]

Moderator: content removed.

Oh let me guess.
A UKIP voter I presume?

Oh let me guess. Moderated by a Leftie twat friend of yours closing down the debate by screaming "Racist" and other authoritarian and bigoted methods because it doesn't fit into your dogmatic, articles of faith ideology. Dealing with you lot of anally retentive control freaks is like arguing with those myopic theists on the other board or the expedient blindness of the Catholic church when having to tackle paedophiles in their ranks.

[jakswan]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497

According to a report by University College London's Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration, in 2011 EU economic migrants contributed a net £5bn to our economy in taxes. Given that our net annual 'fee' to the EU is £12bn [includes rebates], migrants can be viewed are an essential asset to our economy.

There will still be migrants if we left the EU?

Moderator: content removed.

Very cogent, such fine debating skills! Also insults used in a reply to a post that favours his own position. There is no need for me to hurl similar insults back at you, your posts do that for you sir.

I thought, Moderator: content removed., was very cogent and clarified and explicated the issue fully.

But my post was supporting your position?

I'm honestly not sure if we should leave the EU but some people that support it don't seem intelligent and make claims that they can't back up. resorting to insult just further undermines you and does reflect on your position.

[jeremyp]

I don't know what I said as it has now been removed by some twat.

Which of the moderators are you accusing of being a twat?

[Gordon]

Moderator: content removed.

Oh let me guess.
A UKIP voter I presume?

Oh let me guess. Moderated by a Leftie twat friend of yours closing down the debate by screaming "Racist" and other authoritarian and bigoted methods because it doesn't fit into your dogmatic, articles of faith ideology. Dealing with you lot of anally retentive control freaks is like arguing with those myopic theists on the other board or the expedient blindness of the Catholic church when having to tackle paedophiles in their ranks.

Moderator:

Nope - the reality is much simpler Jack. I decided to Mod this post because I judged it to be in breach of the Rules.

Now, I have Modded other posts of yours recently for similar reasons in this same thread and I recall warning you by PM (on 28th October) about your future conduct. I suggest you re-read this PM again a.s.a.p, and especially if you intend to continue posting as you have done here.

Gordon

[Jack Knave]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-29910497

According to a report by University College London's Centre for Research and Analysis of Migration, in 2011 EU economic migrants contributed a net £5bn to our economy in taxes. Given that our net annual 'fee' to the EU is £12bn [includes rebates], migrants can be viewed are an essential asset to our economy.

There will still be migrants if we left the EU?

Moderator: content removed.

Very cogent, such fine debating skills! Also insults used in a reply to a post that favours his own position. There is no need for me to hurl similar insults back at you, your posts do that for you sir.

I thought, Moderator: content removed., was very cogent and clarified and explicated the issue fully.

But my post was supporting your position?

I'm honestly not sure if we should leave the EU but some people that support it don't seem intelligent and make claims that they can't back up. resorting to insult just further undermines you and does reflect on your position.

This is my last post here. I have provided clear and cogent arguments on this forum for why we need to leave the EU which a demented chimp could have seen was good reason for us to exit it. As you lot have failed to understand this obvious and plain position because you wallow in your stupor of your Leftie ideology, which failed decades ago, and thus blinds you of the limpid answer that is in front of your very eyes I see no point in setting my position relentlessly to you in an endless palillogy.

As I stated above when the EU disintegrates I will have the pleasure of saying I told you so.

[jakswan]

This is my last post here.

Awesome so I can get last word thanks!

I have provided clear and cogent arguments on this forum for why we need to leave the EU which a demented chimp could have seen was good reason for us to exit it.

You did say (paraphrasing) the GDP of the EU was falling and we should leave. After pushing you on this, it took a while, this fact was in fact not a fact but wrong. No further arguments have been put forward as far as I know, not clear or cogent I'm afraid.

Someone suggested that immigrants provided a positive impact to the UK economy and I replied that even if we left the EU we would still have immigration. This post actually supported your position, somehow you decided the best response to this support was throw the toys out of the pram.

As you lot have failed to understand this obvious and plain position because you wallow in your stupor of your Leftie ideology,

I'm planing to vote conservative, I sincerely hope they win the next election and we get a referendum on Europe.

 which failed decades ago,

I agree socialism failed.

and thus blinds you of the limpid answer that is in front of your very eyes I see no point in setting my position relentlessly to you in an endless palillogy.

Doesn't apply because I'm not from the left. You sound a bit like you got your arse handed to you and now you are taking your ball home.

As I stated above when the EU disintegrates I will have the pleasure of saying I told you so.

Isn't it going to be tricky saying anything to us if you have made your last post?

[jeremyp]

 I have provided clear and cogent arguments on this forum for why we need to leave the EU

I must have been on holiday when you did that.

As I stated above when the EU disintegrates I will have the pleasure of saying I told you so.

How are you going to do that if...

This is my last post here.

[~TW~]

Yes we should leave.

~TW~

[jakswan]

Yes we should leave.

I was leaning that way, now I'm pretty convinced I'm wrong.

[ippy]

Can't see any reason why we shouldn't have a referendum about joining a federated Europe, instead of having it imposed on us, without a choice.

ippy

[Walt Zingmatilder]

Sorry I thought it said 'should we leave the BBC'.

[jeremyp]

Yes we should leave.

I was leaning that way, now I'm pretty convinced I'm wrong.

Yep.  That settles it.  I'm trying to think of an occasion on which TW was right, but I can't. 

[Jack Knave]

When  the  EU  disintegrates  I  will  have  the pleasure  of  telling  you  lot, "I  Told  You  So!" 

I would like to remind people of what I said in October with regards to what is now happening with Greece et al and what is being said on the Grexit thread. I reckon by the end of the year things will look substantially different for the EU and its future.

[jeremyp]

When  the  EU  disintegrates  I  will  have  the pleasure  of  telling  you  lot, "I  Told  You  So!" 

I would like to remind people of what I said in October with regards to what is now happening with Greece et al and what is being said on the Grexit thread. I reckon by the end of the year things will look substantially different for the EU and its future.

Why don't you wait until the EU disintegrates before being smug, then you won't look like a twat.

[L.A.]

When  the  EU  disintegrates  I  will  have  the pleasure  of  telling  you  lot, "I  Told  You  So!" 

I would like to remind people of what I said in October with regards to what is now happening with Greece et al and what is being said on the Grexit thread. I reckon by the end of the year things will look substantially different for the EU and its future.

Hi Jack,

I would agree that the Greek 'solution' has a very good chance of coming unstuck and if that happened the Euro would be in crisis, but that would not be an end to the EU. Possibly it would bring about the more sensible EU that  Cameron is seeking.

[Hope]

We have plenty of unemployed here so we don't need low skilled immigrants. And by giving our indigenous people the jobs we would also save on the benefits they have to claim because of all those unnecessary uncontrolled immigrants.

Jack, the problem is that in many places the unskilled jobs have been offered to our unskilled unemployed and, for whatever reason, they have turned them down.  The unskilled jobs remain in situ, so we need to bring in unskilled workers who are willing to fill the vacancies.