The Trinity

[Alien]

For the Trinitarians, what do you find the best way of trying to explain the Trinity to someone? The idea of "three centres of consciousness" in God seems to me to be a path well worth exploring, though I am aware that there is no complete way of explaining "how it all works." There are various illustrations of the Trinity, but do they do more harm than good? For the record I subscribe to a totally mainstream understanding of the Trinity (at least I think I do!), i.e. that God is one God of three persons (the best English word we can find to use here), that the Father is truly/fully God, the Son is truly/fully God, the Spirit is truly/fully God, but the Father is not the Son nor is he the Spirit etc.

I'm asking here how best to explain the Trinity rather than, here, argue whether the idea of the Trinity is correct. That might be better on a separate thread.

[ad_orientem]

Personally I tend to shy away from analogies if at all possible. The Creed is a good place to start and by that I mean the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed (for the Orthodox that is the only Creed we use). Of course you need to explain terms such as "consubstantial", "begotten" and "proceeds".

[Anchorman]

How to explain the Trinity without going into the jargon of theology speak is something I've been trying for a long, long time.
If we use the word 'mystery', it's like a red rag to a bull as far as non-theists go - but whether we like it or not, mystery is what it is.
I don't really suppose we CAN give a practical explanation of the triune nature of God without it turning into a theological tract.
I've used the water analogy, the shamrock - even the banana - yes, the banana - think about it - before now to try to demonstrate the unity of the Three while being One...they've helped a bit, but only a bit. 

[ekim]

Perhaps it can be explained by symbolism e.g. The Ocean is the totality (God) the father or source of all.  The Waves are the offspring of the ocean (the Son(s)) and the Water which is within and unifies is the Spirit.  From the point of view of a wave looking horizontally and superficially there is separation from other wave forms and transience.  If it looks within the illusion of separation changes to unity, wholeness, holiness, permanence.

[OH MY WORLD!]

I think that all explanations and illustrations fall short. The Trinity is one of the great mysteries.

[krysta25uk]

Ekim

That is probably one of the best descriptions I have heard.  It actually makes sense to me thank you.

Krysta

[ekim]

Krysta
You're welcome, but please bear in mind that I am not of the Christian faith.  I think the symbolism fits quite well with the teachings of Jesus but a Christian might insist that his Creed says that there is only one 'Son of God', one wave (perhaps a tidal wave?).

[Elevenses81]

A trinity of sorts...

They are one person
 They are two alone
 They are three together
 They are for each other

Helplessly Hoping by Crosby, Stills and Nash

[2Corrie]

All attempts at explanation can only fall short, how can we truly comprehend the essential nature of God. The inter-relational aspect of the Trinity inspires me, that God exists in this eternal relational form, and that through those relationships He expresses the many aspects of His nature.

[~TW~]

I now find that one should allow the Holy Spirit to do the job,but for one's own sake a good study of scripture and the pointers to the doctrine are good to have.

Also a passing look at the NWT is enough to show that these people went to great lengths to lay a false trail,away from this doctrine, considering as they say it is not in scripture.

  ~TW~

[ekim]

All attempts at explanation can only fall short, how can we truly comprehend the essential nature of God. The inter-relational aspect of the Trinity inspires me, that God exists in this eternal relational form, and that through those relationships He expresses the many aspects of His nature.

An alternative view is that of the Christian mystics, where the emphasis is not upon trying to intellectually comprehend 'essential nature' and form a relationship with it but more discover that essence within and unite with it.  Some example quotes:
William Law ..... This pearl of eternity is the Temple of God within you, the consecrated place of divine worship, where alone you can worship God in spirit and in truth.
Richard of Saint Victor .....  If you wish to search out the deep things of God search out the depths of your own spirit.
Meister Eckhart .....  People often say to me ‘Pray for me’.  And I think to myself: Why ever do you go out?   Why not stop at home and mine for your own treasure?   For indeed the whole truth resides in you.
and...   The eye with which I see God, God sees me;  my eye and God's eye is one eye, one seeing, one realising and one love.

[Samuel]

I've always favored the mystic perspective that the reality of the trinity is unkowable, but that that is the very point of contemplating it.

Basically the idea is that through contemplating something that it is impossible for us to resolve we experience a transcendant state of 'unknowing' and through that a closer understanding of god than something merely intellectual.

It was promoted by some medieval monk I think but I have forgotton his name.

[Enki]

I've always favored the mystic perspective that the reality of the trinity is unkowable, but that that is the very point of contemplating it.

Basically the idea is that through contemplating something that it is impossible for us to resolve we experience a transcendant state of 'unknowing' and through that a closer understanding of god than something merely intellectual.

It was promoted by some medieval monk I think but I have forgotton his name.

 Hi Samuel,

Perhaps you are referring to the influence that the 5th/6th century writings of a Christian theologian Dionysius the Areopagite(Denys) had on medieval thought. His rather unusual methods were aimed at cleansing the mind of all knowing, a sort of kenosis, in order to reach some sort of mystical union with God.

[Samuel]

Yes, I think that's it Antithesis. Nice one 

[ekim]

It was promoted by some medieval monk I think but I have forgotton his name.

If you're thinking about the book 'The Cloud of Unknowing', I don't think the author's name is known.

[Alien]

...
Perhaps you are referring to the influence that the 5th/6th century writings of a Christian theologian Dionysius the Areopagite(Denys) had on medieval thought. His rather unusual methods were aimed at cleansing the mind of all knowing, a sort of kenosis, in order to reach some sort of mystical union with God.

Sounds a bit of a plonker.

[Square-Eyes]

I never had trouble with it when I was a Christian. I suppose I saw the father, son and holy spirit as the aspects that make up God. I didn't take the bible literally or see God as a bearded man in the sky so there wasn't really a problem.

[Square-Eyes]

I didn't take the bible literally or see God as a bearded man in the sky .

Who does see God as a bearded man in the sky?

I was charicaturing the biblical literalist view of God as something quite human. You don't think there's a type of Christian who see God in this way?

If you see God as not so different from a man then the three in one thing won't work. Likewise if try to make sense of the bible as a literalist then the trinity is going to make problems. I was simply pointing out that because of the way I thought about God the trinity wasn't a problem. For many Christians it makes no sense at all.

[~TW~]

 I like to show the scripture where God sends God that does and can make inroads.
~TW~

[~TW~]

A point worth noting is Sassy has nothing to say on the Trinity because this person is outside of the Trinity as a Unitarian,in the wilderness.

    ~TW~

[Sassy]

For the Trinitarians, what do you find the best way of trying to explain the Trinity to someone? The idea of "three centres of consciousness" in God seems to me to be a path well worth exploring, though I am aware that there is no complete way of explaining "how it all works." There are various illustrations of the Trinity, but do they do more harm than good? For the record I subscribe to a totally mainstream understanding of the Trinity (at least I think I do!), i.e. that God is one God of three persons (the best English word we can find to use here), that the Father is truly/fully God, the Son is truly/fully God, the Spirit is truly/fully God, but the Father is not the Son nor is he the Spirit etc.

I'm asking here how best to explain the Trinity rather than, here, argue whether the idea of the Trinity is correct. That might be better on a separate thread.

God in three persons... all seperate persons but from one source like a match stick split into three. God being the head and Christ and the Spirit being the other two parts. God being the main person over the other two parts. for without the head the match would not be a match.

Christ clearly made it clear that God sent him and God himself gave him the words to speak. In the Book of Daniel it is clear that ONLY the anti-christ would put himself above God and all that is God.

"Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.

Christ never at any time put himself above God or made himself equal to God because his power came from God.
God put all creation under him and that means he will eventually put himself back under God
 
The only way to fully understand the trinity is to be part of the life God provides through the existence of himself, the  Spirit and Jesus Christ.
The truth is that the Bible is the witness of God in man by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Prophets were Holy men of God because the Holy Spirit gave them the words to speak. They killed the Prophets as Christ taught. But we know also that Christ came so all men can be forgiven of their sins and by the baptism of the Spirit have a new life guided by God.
All one in Christ through the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.

[~TW~]

For the Trinitarians, what do you find the best way of trying to explain the Trinity to someone? The idea of "three centres of consciousness" in God seems to me to be a path well worth exploring, though I am aware that there is no complete way of explaining "how it all works." There are various illustrations of the Trinity, but do they do more harm than good? For the record I subscribe to a totally mainstream understanding of the Trinity (at least I think I do!), i.e. that God is one God of three persons (the best English word we can find to use here), that the Father is truly/fully God, the Son is truly/fully God, the Spirit is truly/fully God, but the Father is not the Son nor is he the Spirit etc.

I'm asking here how best to explain the Trinity rather than, here, argue whether the idea of the Trinity is correct. That might be better on a separate thread.

God in three persons... all seperate persons but from one source like a match stick split into three. God being the head and Christ and the Spirit being the other two parts. God being the main person over the other two parts. for without the head the match would not be a match.

Christ clearly made it clear that God sent him and God himself gave him the words to speak. In the Book of Daniel it is clear that ONLY the anti-christ would put himself above God and all that is God.

"Then the king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and he will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done.

Christ never at any time put himself above God or made himself equal to God because his power came from God.
God put all creation under him and that means he will eventually put himself back under God
 
The only way to fully understand the trinity is to be part of the life God provides through the existence of himself, the  Spirit and Jesus Christ.
The truth is that the Bible is the witness of God in man by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Prophets were Holy men of God because the Holy Spirit gave them the words to speak. They killed the Prophets as Christ taught. But we know also that Christ came so all men can be forgiven of their sins and by the baptism of the Spirit have a new life guided by God.
All one in Christ through the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.

 So Sass let us clear the Ground is Christ God,Yes or No.

  ~TW~

[~TW~]

So Sass says she is C of E {As I said I am church of England } and does not accept the deity of Christ.

 Is the C of E teaching that bad.

                        ~TW~

[Alien]

So Sass says she is C of E {As I said I am church of England } and does not accept the deity of Christ.

 Is the C of E teaching that bad.

                        ~TW~

Nope. I thought Sass said once she was Christadelphian. Have I remembered that incorrectly, Sass?

[Alien]

For the Trinitarians, what do you find the best way of trying to explain the Trinity to someone? The idea of "three centres of consciousness" in God seems to me to be a path well worth exploring, though I am aware that there is no complete way of explaining "how it all works." There are various illustrations of the Trinity, but do they do more harm than good? For the record I subscribe to a totally mainstream understanding of the Trinity (at least I think I do!), i.e. that God is one God of three persons (the best English word we can find to use here), that the Father is truly/fully God, the Son is truly/fully God, the Spirit is truly/fully God, but the Father is not the Son nor is he the Spirit etc.

I'm asking here how best to explain the Trinity rather than, here, argue whether the idea of the Trinity is correct. That might be better on a separate thread.

God in three persons... all seperate persons but from one source like a match stick split into three. God being the head and Christ and the Spirit being the other two parts. God being the main person over the other two parts. for without the head the match would not be a match.

Christ clearly made it clear that God sent him and God himself gave him the words to speak. In the Book of Daniel it is clear that ONLY the anti-christ would put himself above God and all that is God.

The Trinity doesn't put the Son "above God" or "all that is God". I'm not sure you have understood what the Trinity entails. Trinitarians don't claim that.

...

Christ never at any time put himself above God

But no-one is claiming that, Sass.

or made himself equal to God

Really? How about John 5:18, which says, "For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.". John seems pretty clear what Jesus was saying here.

because his power came from God.
God put all creation under him and that means he will eventually put himself back under God

Where did you get that last bit, please??

The only way to fully understand the trinity is to be part of the life God provides through the existence of himself, the  Spirit and Jesus Christ.

Eh? You are using the word Trinity in a sense that Trinitarians don't mean. Get your own word!

The truth is that the Bible is the witness of God in man by the power of the Holy Spirit. The Prophets were Holy men of God because the Holy Spirit gave them the words to speak. They killed the Prophets as Christ taught. But we know also that Christ came so all men can be forgiven of their sins and by the baptism of the Spirit have a new life guided by God.
All one in Christ through the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.

Yep. Very Trinitarian.